Democracy hahahaha

I am glad you answered Maizie as the continued reference to the note is really tiresome. As you say, and has been said soooo many times, it was a joke. Each outgoing Treasury secretary wrote and left an 'in joke' note to his successor - not factual, just a joke. In this case it was made public. If all the notes had been made public it would be interesting but fairly pointless reading.

most recently the note "There's no money left" says it all.

I keep saying this but that is just prejudice speaking (opinion not based on fact) Strugglinabit. Show us the facts! It is not true. For a start we, as we are a sovereign country we could not be in a position where there is no money left - that is as fact. It is possible to show that the same facts interpreted differently, argued differently but not having a fact at all to back your argument is just an arrogance that asks us to measure your opinion of one small life (all our lives are only a small part of the whole) against facts.

You are also, very high handedly, suggesting all people who have voted for 50 years think as you do - they don't. We all live in a bit of a bubble with our views often being upheld or at least not challenged by our friends. We can also select only to read information which does not challenge our views but it must be obvious to you that People who have voted for over 50 years have different memories to yours. Some also fact check these memories and find if they are true or not.

Gove wants to get rid of habitat directive to build houses on nature reserves.

Oh!!! And where Mr Gove is that in the manifesto? Mad as a box of frogs

The mess that has been created is entirely self-inflicted. We are now in it because David Cameron thought the result of the Referendum was a given. What is extraordinary is that Theresa May repeated the same mistake when calling for a General Election. Is it all a game to them? Sadly, it is the ordinary people who will have to pick up the pieces. Nothing new there.

Well written, a pensive reply Greta, without any put-downs, just reflection.. what all the population needs right now.

Did you really live amongst rubbish, rats and unburied bodies Jalima.
Yes Gracesgran (but not amongst unburied bodies - obviously!) - we had to move to a much more expensive (but nice) area because after months out of work, DH found a job in another area. Across the road from our houses was a green area where piles and piles of rubbish had been dumped, behind our garden was a communal garden where people had dumped their rubbish including unwashed tins etc because no rubbish was being collected; the streets of nearest large town were littered with rubbish and the rats were everywhere including very large ones walking across our garden which was a shock so I could not let the children play out. It was very unpleasant indeed.
I'm glad you did not have to experience that yourself.

And yes, a family member died and we had to wait weeks for the funeral.
There was Legionnaires disease in the local hospital so the thought of having to go in there or having to take one of the children there was frightening too.

And I remember 1976 very well, trying to keep a new baby cool!

Don't be patronising, Jalima.
why on earth was my post patronising?
Read it again.
no, I didn't have children when Heath was prime minister so the candles, the bakers' strikes etc were definitely not then.

All of which is why I am of the opinion that those who are not staunch members of any particular party are the ones who effect change because if one party is in for too long they become arrogant and complacent or just incompetent.
On January 15 1979, Shore joined the prime minister, James Callaghan, and the rest of the Labour cabinet to discuss whether the national situation had deteriorated so seriously that troops should be brought onto the streets and a State of Emergency declared.

In that sort of climate the electorate had had enough and voted in MT, and as they demonstrated 11 years later, they wanted change again.
Perhaps the Tories are now reaching that point and the electorate is looking towards a new approach.

The floating voter will be the one who decides.
Why would anyone wish to antagonise them?

Calling them silly or patronising when they state a fact is bound to have a negative impact.

Well in 1977-78 I lived in 3 different areas. First a rather nice council estate in a Northern town, second a not so nice block of council flats in a different Northern town, third a nice area of private housing in same northern town. I never saw any rats, don't remember any rubbish but don't know about any bodies. I was out and about a fair bit pushing DS1 in a pram so did see a fair amount of the surrounding areas.

Good post Strugglinabit

We were in the GLC area.

Queens speech been put back.

Sinn Fein cant accept a DUP/government coalition.

If they cant get the QS through its tantamount to a no confidence vote

Jalima the power cuts and hence the need for candles started during Heath's Prime Ministership and continued under Harold Wilson. Both political parties then.

Quote about rubbish and unburied bodies (from wikipedia) as some seem to think that these are false memories. The whole article is worth reading. There are probably a whole lot more articles about it, but this is the first I saw.
Incidentally, inflation peaked at 26.9% in the 12 months to August 1975. This is why many people baulk at the prospect of "quantitative easing" as a solution to monetary problems - they remember runaway inflation.

"Gravediggers' strike

A notorious industrial action during the winter, and one which was later frequently referred to by Conservative politicians, was the strike by gravediggers, members of the GMWU in Liverpool and in Tameside near Manchester. Eighty gravediggers being on strike, Liverpool City Council hired a factory in Speke to store the corpses until they could be buried. The Department of Environment noted that there were 150 bodies stored at the factory at one point, with 25 more added every day. The reports of unburied bodies caused concern with the public. On 1 February a persistent journalist asked the Medical Officer of Health for Liverpool, Dr Duncan Bolton, what would be done if the strike continued for months, Bolton speculated that burial at sea would be considered. Although his response was hypothetical, in the circumstances it caused great alarm. Other alternatives were considered, including allowing the bereaved to dig their own funeral's graves, deploying troops, and engaging private contractors to inter the bodies. The main concerns were said to be aesthetic because bodies could be safely stored in heat-sealed bags for up to six weeks. Bolton later reported being 'horrified' by the sensationalised reportage of the strike in the mass media. The gravediggers eventually settled for a 14% rise after a fortnight's strike.

Waste collectors

With many collectors having been on strike since 22 January, local authorities began to run out of space for storing waste and used local parks under their control. The Conservative controlled Westminster City Council used Leicester Square in the heart of London's West End for piles of rubbish and, as the Evening Standard reported, this attracted rats.

On 21 February, a settlement of the local authority workers' dispute was agreed, whereby workers got an 11% rise, plus £1 per week, with the possibility of extra rises, should a pay comparability study recommend them. Some left-wing local authorities, among them the London Borough of Camden, conceded the union demands in full (known as the 'Camden surplus') and then saw an investigation by the District Auditor, which eventually ruled it a breach of fiduciary duty and therefore illegal. Camden Borough councillors, among them Ken Livingstone, avoided surcharge. Livingstone was Leader of the Greater London Council at the time the decision not to impose a surcharge was made."

Nandalot yes, I do remember that too, but I am just saying that life under Labour was not perfect either, but I am either a liar or patronising because no-one else remembers that or they have rose-tinted spectacles.

All of which is why I am of the opinion that those who are not staunch members of any particular party are the ones who effect change because if one party is in for too long they become arrogant and complacent or just incompetent.

which is the point where we may be at, or very nearly, at the moment, but no-one seems to understand the point I am making.

Apparently one has to be staunch Labour or true-blue Tory to post on here - if you're not with them you're against them!

I was beginning to think I had imagined that period of my life Elegran after reading the denials of it ever happening!

Quote about rubbish and unburied bodies (from wikipedia) as some seem to think that these are false memories.

I am not sure who you are accusing here Elegran but I haven't read anyone's post of saying the people quoting this particular event have a 'false' memory of these events - I certainly wasn't. I think those of us around at the time were certainly aware there were some problems in some parts of the country. What I would point out is that if you set you whole life views based on one event you are probably going to have a biased view.

When I landed on the island of Cyprus at the age of 12 there were no problems there. On our way home from the airport we were stopped and someone stuck a gun in through the window while they questioned my father and the friend who was driving us. I did not immediately decide that I could never trust a Cypriot. I learned about the reasons that had caused problems and tried to take a reasoned view on the people living there.

It seems extreme to me to set your political views against one political party because, almost 40 years ago, a small group who where outside the actual Labour Party (although affiliated I have no doubt) made life difficult for you by withdrawing their labour because their wages were being frozen - something they were perfectly entitled to do.

I remembered reports of it Jalima (not just in the yellow-tops either) and being concerned about the health aspects as well as the sheer impression that the country was sinking into a disorganised hell.

I had three young children at the time.

but I am just saying that life under Labour was not perfect either

I think we could all agree with that Jalima. Life, so far as I have experienced it, is never perfect. All I ask from our political parties is that they ensure a reasonable share of 'lifes' resources go to each person - I really don't ever expect perfection and would be surprised if anyone does.

I assume that when Maybot spoke to the Queen she must have assured her Maj that she could form a functioning government. But it is clear that Maybot was far at that point of doing so.

Did Maybot lie to her Maj then?

I did think at the time it was a tad premature

I didn't say that anyone had mentioned false memories "out loud" GG2 but that they seemed to think it, from the tone of their posts. I think Jalima felt that too.

I don't think I said anything at all about basing my view of a political party on one event. Seventy-eight years of life covers more than one event, more than one financial situation in my life, and more than one shade of government. In any case I was offering a link to an article, not expressing a view of any party, so the influence of anything is not really relevant.

It seems extreme to me to set your political views against one political party because, almost 40 years ago, a small group who where outside the actual Labour Party (although affiliated I have no doubt) made life difficult for you by withdrawing their labour because their wages were being frozen - something they were perfectly entitled to do.

Who has done that?
Has anyone posted that they have set their political views against one particular party because of the debacle some of them manage to make at the end of their terms?

Please tell me which poster has done that.

One poster did Jalima, but I can't remember who it was. It was something along the lines of "we'll return to the days of unburied bodies and no electricity if we vote for Corbyn". It was a bit hysterical and illogical.

PS. I lived in various parts of Greater London from 1973 to 1982. I read about the problems, but I can honestly say I didn't experience them personally.

It does seem to me, though, that if a poster dares to say anything on a thread which deviates even slightly from the official Labour party line they are accused of being 'right wing', being 'patronising' , and setting their political views against a particular party because of events 40 years ago which many other posters were very lucky not to have experienced.
To quote a life experience and be asked if that really happened, that another poster saw nothing of the problems dismisses one person's statement as verging on the untrue.
Perhaps you were all living in a bubble, as someone posted above.

I have pointed out that I do not have rigid views regarding any political party and that any party, when too long in power, becomes complacent and the electorate starts demanding change.

If the events of the late 1970s were not so bad how come the electorate thought otherwise?

Jalima I only pointed out that the three day week and the electricity cuts started under Heath because you said that you didn't have children at the time of Heath so the candles were definitely not then. I was just pointing out that there were candles under both Heath and Wilson. Sounds like a two Ronnie sketch!

Sorry, Jalima but asking me if I was old enough to remember the Winter of Discontent sounded rather patronising to me, especially as, if you'd read my post, you'd have seen that I said I was working at the time.

I can assure you that Sheffield, where I was living and working (and pregnant) in 1979 had no power cuts, no unburied bodies and no rubbish piling up in the streets. It was a dreadful winter though, so much snow that the buses couldn't run (too many hills) and having to sleep on the floor of the hospital nurses home because I couldn't get home. (That was so horrible that I trudged 3 miles through the snow to get home after one night!)

On the other hand I can clearly remember the 3 day week during the miners strike of '76. Phased power cuts around the city (we were lucky enough to live on the same circuit as the hospital I worked at, hospitals' power was never cut) darkened shops, no TV after 10.00 pm. Tory government...

Anyway, citing the winter of '79 as a reason not to trust Labour now is a bit meaningless. We live in a different country now. Economically much more stable (thanks to the EU), union power tightly curbed. I'm not saying it couldn't happen again but it is much more unlikely to.