That went well didn't it?

I think that Corbyn has now to move from being a cult figure to leader of the Labour Party. That will assist in healing divisions a give the right message.

There will always be Corbynisters, but that's fine as long as it is accepted that he is more than that and recognisably a party leader.

This tweet puts it better than I did:

Absurdity: Believing that the imperfections of the EU merit even one 10th of the disruption and loss that would be caused by hard #Brexit

Brexit is going to affect everyone in the UK, anyway, roses as it's going to make us all poorer. Vague hopes of great trade deals in the future are no substitute for the solid benefits we already have from trading with a huge market right on our doorstep and the ability to take advantage of world wide trade agreements the EU already has negotiated. Given the choice of trading with 'independent' UK and the EU countries will go for the EU every time because it is a far, far bigger market. It will take years to recover (if we recover at all)

The 'soft Brexit' people are talking about now is basically the Norway option. Pay to belong, conform to EU regulations and have no say whatsoever. But at least we'll be able to retain our market and existing trade more easily. I can't actually see Brexiteers really liking that option very much.

Would there be blood on the streets if we didn't leave the EU? I don't know.

What would all our Gnet Brexiteers be prepared to do if we stayed in?

But politically it surely would be impossible (to withdraw from Brexit) because those who had voted LEAVE in the referendum would immediately be up in arms? Similarly, if it was decided to hold a second referendum and this time the REMAINERS won, the original LEAVERS would be in revolt.

I know there is the argument that first time round the electorate did not know what they were voting for as too little information was available (mostly true in my opinion) but you can see the sort of problems that both a straightforward Brexit withdrawal AND a second referendum would cause.

Gawd 'elp us all.

The EU have stated several times that Brexit can be stopped/reversed right up to the date of leaving.

Nobody can seriously be hoping that Brexit will go pear shaped, if it does it will affect everybody in the UK, so all must hope for a good outcome.
There will be no going back on it, so as Nottoold says the best brains must get going.

Would you immediately withdraw from Brexit? Would that even be legal after the referendum result?

Of course it would be. The referendum was not legally binding.

The big question mark would be over revoking the notice under Article 50. I believe there is a court case going on at the moment to decide whether or not it is revocable.

Whoops, sorry. Looks like I may be treading on the toes of another thread here.

whitewave - agree about David Davis. I used to rate him but I rather think he's had his day. We do all need to take ownership of Brexit because there's really no alternative now so TM should get the best brains together (not just politicians - probably no politicians ha-ha!), with a good mix of ages, backgrounds and life experience, and see what they can come up with. Who would you nominate?

Yes! nto I do think it needs more than David Davis - not known for his genius. We need a team of all talents from every party. We all need to take ownership of Brexit.

Like it Mawbroon! CAD will be looking over her shoulder!

Whitewave - do you mean, perhaps, an all-party group put together specifically to Brexit? It could also include a student or two and a couple of retireds, with 'experts' on hand to give advice if asked. Yes, it could work, couldn't it? In the absence of a Winston Churchill that's probably the way to go.

Not exactly Carol Ann Duffy, in fact nothing LIKE her
All together now

??
Oh dear Theresa May
Every dog must have its day
But you've mucked up big time
And now we're not so sure
Your slogan Strong and Stable
Omitted to say you're not able
To do all the things you had promised you would do before.
You say Brexit it means Brexit
But it might be a hasty exit
From the corridors of power
You'll see no more. ??

It can be afforded because most debt will never be repaid anyway. The biggest beneficiaries of student loans are those who have lent money to the Student Loans Company (and the people who have bought out the debt). In a context of low interest rates, student loans are a guaranteed source of income for lenders.

One person's borrowing = another person's income.

They haven't all fallen for it, but I don't suppose they're into looking gift horses in the mouth either.

DD has told me (and this confirms my own impression) that students' prime motivation for voting Labour was a fairer society and Brexit. Although Labour has said it supports Brexit, they believed that Labour wouldn't use it as an excuse for a bonfire of EU laws.

DD has already finished studying and would actually be a bit miffed, if current and future students had no fees, while she still has to pay hers back. DS is in his first year at uni and voted LD rather than Labour, because he's so anti-Brexit and preferred the LD manifesto. DS's debt is likely to be between £60k - £80k.

I don't like the poem I'm afraid. I like the old fashioned sort that rhymes and gallops along Kipling fashion.

I don't understand how all these young supposedly intelligent voters could fall for all the promises made by Labour. Free tuition? It couldn't be afforded when only 10% went to university, how in Hades can it be afforded now more like 50% go? Especially with all the other stuff they were going to do.

I agree though, WW with your point that, with this hung parliament, the parties will now all have to constructively discuss Brexit and not just slag each other off regardless. It could work.

BTW this is my first post in a long time in the stormy waters of politics.

Clarke? we are not that desperate.

Trouble is there is no one who the country can turn to at this moment.

Least of all is that waffler Boris.

At least in the press I read, not a peep from TB, too busy making money in the ME

Is it really too late for Kenneth Clarke?

Let's hope that they are willing to put nation before party annie

merlot we didn't need to we didn't pay for our fees. We didn't need to we weren't faced with Brexit which is something the young don't want. We didn't need to because our NHS wasn't under threat. We didn't need to to because we had jobs and housing and a future.

Worth getting out of bed for wasn't it?

Whitewave, all the parties couldn't work together, the Libs want to stay in, Corbyn wants out but the party - apart from Kate Howey, want in, the Tories want out, May and Ken Clarke wanted in, UKIP wanted out.

I have heard students from three university towns interviewed this morning, they said they voted labour because of the promise of no university fees. My elder granddaughter who is studying in a Welsh university told me many students there said if they lived in England they would have voted for the university fee promise.

The young did good.

You mean they finally got out of bed or off their X boxes (or whatever) to vote because they were promised the earth, moon and stars?

Bit of a far cry from our young voting years when you had to be 21 for a start and we weren't promised anything.

I think that the Tories need to approach all the parties and recognise that Brexit is so utterly important that it must be worked through by the whole of the country.

Perversely it would protect the Tories from being entirely blamed if the talks all go pear shaped.

Love the Duffy poem but also have some feelings for TM (without necessarily agreeing with her policies). Imagine what she must be going through - politics is a very nasty game - and I really don't see how the 'appalling mess' CAN be cleared up, whitewave, do you? Would you immediately withdraw from Brexit? Would that even be legal after the referendum result? Would the other EU members agree? I think they'd take us to the cleaners. What we need now is a sort of Winston Churchill figure to come along and save us all but unfortunately I don't see one on the horizon.