That went well didn't it?

The more I think about the result the better it gets, because May is fatally weakened which means that she will be unable to carry out anything much more than the non controversial work in parliament. The electorate have given her a message she can't ignore, unless she wants the Tories to lose the next election big time.

But best of all they are left with the complete car crash that is Brexit over which nothing good can come. Their appalling mess - well here is the bucket and floor cloth - time to get on your knees and clear it up.

The young did good.

The DT who had nothing but praise for weeks... anything to get their cronies in.... really have the knives out this morning, from editorials, letters to the editor and even feature writers.
She is living on borrowed time. I wonder if any bookmakers are taking bets.

Love the Duffy poem but also have some feelings for TM (without necessarily agreeing with her policies). Imagine what she must be going through - politics is a very nasty game - and I really don't see how the 'appalling mess' CAN be cleared up, whitewave, do you? Would you immediately withdraw from Brexit? Would that even be legal after the referendum result? Would the other EU members agree? I think they'd take us to the cleaners. What we need now is a sort of Winston Churchill figure to come along and save us all but unfortunately I don't see one on the horizon.

I think that the Tories need to approach all the parties and recognise that Brexit is so utterly important that it must be worked through by the whole of the country.

Perversely it would protect the Tories from being entirely blamed if the talks all go pear shaped.

The young did good.

You mean they finally got out of bed or off their X boxes (or whatever) to vote because they were promised the earth, moon and stars?

Bit of a far cry from our young voting years when you had to be 21 for a start and we weren't promised anything.

I have heard students from three university towns interviewed this morning, they said they voted labour because of the promise of no university fees. My elder granddaughter who is studying in a Welsh university told me many students there said if they lived in England they would have voted for the university fee promise.

Whitewave, all the parties couldn't work together, the Libs want to stay in, Corbyn wants out but the party - apart from Kate Howey, want in, the Tories want out, May and Ken Clarke wanted in, UKIP wanted out.

merlot we didn't need to we didn't pay for our fees. We didn't need to we weren't faced with Brexit which is something the young don't want. We didn't need to because our NHS wasn't under threat. We didn't need to to because we had jobs and housing and a future.

Worth getting out of bed for wasn't it?

Let's hope that they are willing to put nation before party annie

Is it really too late for Kenneth Clarke?

Clarke? we are not that desperate.

Trouble is there is no one who the country can turn to at this moment.

Least of all is that waffler Boris.

At least in the press I read, not a peep from TB, too busy making money in the ME

BTW this is my first post in a long time in the stormy waters of politics.

I don't like the poem I'm afraid. I like the old fashioned sort that rhymes and gallops along Kipling fashion.

I don't understand how all these young supposedly intelligent voters could fall for all the promises made by Labour. Free tuition? It couldn't be afforded when only 10% went to university, how in Hades can it be afforded now more like 50% go? Especially with all the other stuff they were going to do.

I agree though, WW with your point that, with this hung parliament, the parties will now all have to constructively discuss Brexit and not just slag each other off regardless. It could work.

They haven't all fallen for it, but I don't suppose they're into looking gift horses in the mouth either.

DD has told me (and this confirms my own impression) that students' prime motivation for voting Labour was a fairer society and Brexit. Although Labour has said it supports Brexit, they believed that Labour wouldn't use it as an excuse for a bonfire of EU laws.

DD has already finished studying and would actually be a bit miffed, if current and future students had no fees, while she still has to pay hers back. DS is in his first year at uni and voted LD rather than Labour, because he's so anti-Brexit and preferred the LD manifesto. DS's debt is likely to be between £60k - £80k.

It can be afforded because most debt will never be repaid anyway. The biggest beneficiaries of student loans are those who have lent money to the Student Loans Company (and the people who have bought out the debt). In a context of low interest rates, student loans are a guaranteed source of income for lenders.

One person's borrowing = another person's income.

Not exactly Carol Ann Duffy, in fact nothing LIKE her
All together now

??
Oh dear Theresa May
Every dog must have its day
But you've mucked up big time
And now we're not so sure
Your slogan Strong and Stable
Omitted to say you're not able
To do all the things you had promised you would do before.
You say Brexit it means Brexit
But it might be a hasty exit
From the corridors of power
You'll see no more. ??

Like it Mawbroon! CAD will be looking over her shoulder!

Whitewave - do you mean, perhaps, an all-party group put together specifically to Brexit? It could also include a student or two and a couple of retireds, with 'experts' on hand to give advice if asked. Yes, it could work, couldn't it? In the absence of a Winston Churchill that's probably the way to go.

Yes! nto I do think it needs more than David Davis - not known for his genius. We need a team of all talents from every party. We all need to take ownership of Brexit.

whitewave - agree about David Davis. I used to rate him but I rather think he's had his day. We do all need to take ownership of Brexit because there's really no alternative now so TM should get the best brains together (not just politicians - probably no politicians ha-ha!), with a good mix of ages, backgrounds and life experience, and see what they can come up with. Who would you nominate?

Whoops, sorry. Looks like I may be treading on the toes of another thread here.

Would you immediately withdraw from Brexit? Would that even be legal after the referendum result?

Of course it would be. The referendum was not legally binding.

The big question mark would be over revoking the notice under Article 50. I believe there is a court case going on at the moment to decide whether or not it is revocable.

Nobody can seriously be hoping that Brexit will go pear shaped, if it does it will affect everybody in the UK, so all must hope for a good outcome.
There will be no going back on it, so as Nottoold says the best brains must get going.

The EU have stated several times that Brexit can be stopped/reversed right up to the date of leaving.

But politically it surely would be impossible (to withdraw from Brexit) because those who had voted LEAVE in the referendum would immediately be up in arms? Similarly, if it was decided to hold a second referendum and this time the REMAINERS won, the original LEAVERS would be in revolt.

I know there is the argument that first time round the electorate did not know what they were voting for as too little information was available (mostly true in my opinion) but you can see the sort of problems that both a straightforward Brexit withdrawal AND a second referendum would cause.

Gawd 'elp us all.