London fire

Only from the roof I'd say Jen - they'd certainly have seen the smoke cloud which was visible for miles away.

Interesting what you say about the Right Lumpy, the Daily Mail has printed a map of empty mansions in the immediate area, helpfully providing addresses and a map.

Empty

If these houses are attacked they will blame Corbyn.

It's a long time since I've been to London.
Is it possible to see Grenfell House from Buckingham Palace?
Opposite sides of Hyde Park on my map.

I cynically think that it's the right that may provoke this anger to riots, thus losing the victims any sympathy and othering them.

David Lammy mentioned on here.

theconversation.com/corporate-manslaughter-what-is-it-and-could-it-bring-justice-for-grenfell-tower-victims-79588

here we go again why is it "far left" to want to fight for peoples rights ,to fix an injustice ,to get things happening when the government in power is doing bugger all? I'm not far left but I would join them on their march and hound Downing street surely its humanitarian to want to help by WHATEVER MEANS you have ...and if a loud voice is all you have THEN USE IT !!

May seems to have seriously underestimated the anger and needs to step up to the mark. I only hope things don't turn nasty over the weekend.

I think this has been her problem all the way along and I think it is the problem of many of her fans. She truly believed that everyone else thought they were doing well - or should do.

Remember the 'look at our record' comment. She made it twice and both times seemed to be surprised that she was laughed at. To give her her due I do think she wanted to help as she realised that everyone didn't see the Osbourne vanity project on austerity in the way that they did. I just don't think she got/gets how deeply the feelings run. I do think this can happen to all politicians if they allow themselves to be confined in a bubble and May seems to have actually encouraged this.

I also think a small number of the far left are trying to make a fight over this tragedy which may backfire. It is awful and we need to know why. I am shocked to see the layers of subcontracting which must strip out much of the capital but these people need caring for and they need help not people using them.

I love him and I hope he has a bright future ahead of him, he's a good man who has entered politics for the right reasons.

Yes, I've seen it, LumpySpacedPrincess. I hope he is allowed to use his expertise as a barrister to help the people of Grenfell Tower.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, I am working through it but I wanted to post this clip of David Lammy as I found it so powerful. Apologies if it has already been posted.

David Lammy interview

Another expert report, worth reading.

theconversation.com/yes-the-grenfell-tower-fire-is-political-its-a-failure-of-many-governments-79599

From an expert on social housing, who has done research both here and in Europe.

theconversation.com/grenfell-tower-fire-tragedy-reveals-ugly-flaws-of-regeneration-agenda-79452

By the way, it says on that link that what they need more than anything is cash.
May says the government will give £5 million.
What was the cost of the refurbishment - £10 million?

skwawkbox.org/2017/06/17/grenfell-survivor-only-passed-8-people-on-stairs-all-the-way-from-upper-floor/

From someone who works near the Grenfell site.

I agree with you Anya. The Queen managed to visit without being kissy and huggy and followed up with an appropriate "birthday message" today (and I'm no royalist).

May seems to have seriously underestimated the anger and needs to step up to the mark. I only hope things don't turn nasty over the weekend.

I'm quite disgusted by apologists for May and think it would be better if I didn't write any more.

It's not unfair at all Lillie - her comments were asinine in the extreme. Everyone knows the facts about what actually happened (I'm not talking about speculating about why it happened).

What she is doing in politico-speech- wasting time by not answering a question, padding out her answers so the question doesn't get answered and then going back and saying it all again. She had one last chance after her disasterous political campaign to get out there and speak to the survivors and so redeem herself but she couldn't think to do that.

No politicians are totally "innocent" of making political capital from things that happen around us; but we cannot unpoliticise our world - we have folk who govern and they should be called to account when they get things wrong. And the folk most likely to do that are parties that oppose them - that is why a strong opposition is so important in a democracy.

It is a shame that you feel so squeamish about this annie as it is an essential part of our democracy. Who else is going to challenge the neglect and complacency that have led to this terrible tragedy?

I am more distressed by Rigby's post about other tower blocks not having proper fire fighting equipment in situ - now that really does make me "nauseous."

Politics can be a dirty business in many ways, but it is not a dirty word - it is what fuels our democracy and we should be grateful for it, even though it has not served us very well in the last year or so - but what is the alternative? A dictatorship where such tragedies happen and no-one speaks out? - no thank you.

The far left groups were at the protest in Kensington yesterday with their banners, get the Tories out, no different to this thread , use grief to further the cause. Too much for my stomach , felt nauseous reading this thread yesterday , more so today. Bile and hatred using the grief of others to further their political ambitions

It wuold help if she actually answered any questions

But really it is immaterial as she is only caretaking

^ I too listened to her stating the bleeding obvious 'people have lost their homes' etc. and found myself repeating 'we know that' and 'we know that too' ...WTF does she think - that we don't watch the news.^

I think that is a bit unfair. TM has to state that which is fact, that which she knows. It wouldn't be right for her to start making assumptions (like the media do) about this that or the other until she has the facts to hand. There will be a time to talk retrospectively about austerity, cuts, regulations etc. and it's easy for people to blame TM, but for the moment all the poor woman can do only five days on, is to establish the cause and promise to look after the victims. I expect that, underneath, she, as a human being, is as impatient as the rest of us to have all the answers.

No i am afraid not.

Hotels are being used initially. But one poor old boy who lost his wife has been put into an old peoples home which has pretty well devistared him.

Forgive me if my question has already been discussed. I avoided the thread for days as it is such a harrowing topic, and have only skim-read the many pages.

Exactly HOW can the survivors be rehoused locally? What accommodation is available? The Government has promised this, so is the Government itself going to put something in place? Does it have something in mind, or are they empty words that simply mean that it expects the local council to conjure up something from a magic housing tree?

Has anyone heard any official answers to this issue yet?

It is to take place on 1 July.

It has happened for a number of years to march against austerity.

Even more important this year after this dreadful austerity disaster.
Important to show we care for those suffering as a result of this uncaring governments policies
Important to show we are passionate sbout our NHS
Important to show thst the firefighters cuts must stop
Important to show that police cuts must stop
Important to demand the departure of this troublesome government.

Well said, Washerwoman.

Does anyone know if John McConnell was calling for this People's Assembly March in London prior to this dreadful fire ,or since. ?Either way I'm pretty disgusted by that tbh. Everyone has a right to peaceful protest, of course they do.Just as everyone has a right to a democratic vote.But the London Met police have enough to contend with at the moment with heightened terror threats and in the aftermath of the London Bridge attack.And no doubt many deployed to Greenfell. On the recent documentary about the Met they said they dread a large protest as it costs a million pounds to police,at a time when cuts to policing are being -quite rightly- criticised.And I'm sure those officers are due some time with family,not having leave cancelled.Encouraging thousands more people to flood into the city at the moment just seems insanity to me,whatever your political persuasion.I wonder what Jo Cox's husband thinks of it?

WW I too listened to her stating the bleeding obvious 'people have lost their homes' etc. and found myself repeating 'we know that' and 'we know that too' ...WTF does she think - that we don't watch the news.