London fire

Me too, but I don't want a money tree I want the government to go before they can do any more damage

After Manchester I remember commenting about how impressed I was by the Queen's visit to the children's hospital ( I always start these posts with 'I'm not a royalist but..) and I felt the same about the royal visit today. I have no idea how these things work but I can't help but feel that as the Queen and Wills have been and were clearly moved, it will increase the pressure on the government not just to SAY they are doing something but actual DO something. I got a sense listening to R4 today that the government are running a bit scared and appear to have discovered the magic money tree somehow. But we'll see - it's early days

Same here, Riverwalk. And the fact that William was a pilot on rescue helicopters shows he knew what he was talking about.

I'm not a royalist but thought the Queen's visit was spot on.

The security people were looking a bit twitchy, as they obviously don't do many unscripted visits.

Very poignant as she was talking to emergency workers you could hear a wailing woman in the background.

Polly Toynbee has got it spot on about May.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/16/theresa-may-scared-grenfell-survivors-finished-austerity-cameron-osborne

X post, that's what DH said re the one with the mineral core.

DH said there were three types of cladding that could be used; two fireproof and the third not. The cheapest.

It is banned in Germany, Jalima.
Also, which might mislead people, the same cladding comes in a more expensive version with a fire resistant mineral core. Looks the same, performs quite differently.

Using it would have cost £5,000 more (in an £8 million refurbishment apparently)

Jalima, the Building Research Establishment warned against using it last year.

Anyone who buys the Sun, please don't.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/sun-journalist-grenfell-tower-victim-hospital

This type of cladding seems to have been used worldwide, not just here, perhaps to replace asbestos?

How it ever was deemed suitable for buildings is a major question but there needs to be urgent action taken as an inquiry could drag on for years.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/experts-warned-government-against-cladding-material-used-on-grenfell

David Lammy has called for arrests for corporate manslaughter.

@Petra.

Just been reading a twitter discussion about this. Yes, there are EU regulations about energy performance as you say, but this is the extract from them which was posted on twitter.

Boris again.

twitter.com/jonburkeUK/status/875002500667121665

mostlyharmless I think the worry is that governments are in control of inquiries and set the agenda. If you ever followed up any of the children's homes abuse inquiries, you can see that's true. People don't face justice, because the inquiry claims it was never expected to look at such and such aspect. The alternative is for people to bring private prosecutions, but who's going to do that when whole families have died? A number of lawyers are offering their services for free, but it's going to take years and cost millions.

Lambeth Council has only just been fined for negligence relating to the Camberwell fire. About £250.000! As far as I know, survivors and the next of kin haven't received anything.

The EU requirement is a red herring - and quite a mendacious one. Nowhere has the EU made it a requirement to clad buildings in a material which is banned in other countries.

MaizieD
I think the eu does ( indirectly) have something to do with this. The work carried out was done under the 'Energy Performance of Buildings Directive'
The government have to carry out these renovations.

dd well it looks as though it might drag on for years then if that's how long an inquest takes. I thought the government had promised an interim report this summer.
The people who live in tower blocks (apparently 8% of Londoners) need answers too.

There's a petition to set up an inquest rather than an inquiry. This explains it better than I can:

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/an-inquest-not-a-public-inquiry-for-the-grenfell-tower-fires?bucket

This is the coroner inquest report from the Camberwell fire, which four years to complete:

www.lambeth.gov.uk/elections-and-council/lakanal-house-coroner-inquest

And dj an enquiry takes several years to complete. The report then sits around for a few more years until the government chooses whether to accept its recommendations. Definitely need inquests.

I'm just repeating what a lawyer, who worked on the Camberwell inquiry, said. I'm not a lawyer and I don't know how it works.

Unless a death is caused by natural causes an inquest is held , it law

I hate to point out, dj that EU regulations haven't really had anything to do with the case in question.

But I do get your point about the dangers of abandoning 'regulation'.

It's also why Brexit is dangerous. Getting rid of EU regulations should not be contemplated until there has been an inquest.

Listening to a programme on the radio this morning they were interviewing a psychologist who had lost her brother in the Twin Towers 9/11. It had taken a year for her brother's body to be identified and she said the identification of remains is still ongoing.

The people left after most of us have moved on and are talking of other things will need a great deal of support. I really cannot imagine how they will cope.