London fire

THe difference between an inquest and an inquiry.

skwawkbox.org/2017/06/16/watch-share-why-may-wants-grenfell-inquiry-call-for-inquestnotinquiry/

This is why an inquest is needed.

Yes dj a very strong indictment of current policies.
No legal aid (referred to on another link) for the tenants means the law doesn't really work properly any more unless you're rich. Shocking.

The fact is we all have different ways of conveying concern but we can also recognise when it is being conveyed IF THE PERSON IS THERE. May, as Michael Portillo said last night, did not use her humanity. She should have been there with the residents. She may have been shouted at but she should have been willing to take that. Anger is part of their grief (and ours) and she did the equivalent of crossing the road. Even is some of us might do that when we see someone who has just been bereaved she has to be prepared to receive people's emotions and not be so frightened of 'people'.

Jeremy Corbyn did not behave in any way we have not seen him behave in the past. All he did was show his humanity in the way that comes naturally to him any criticism of that is from a world of make believe.

On last nights 'This Week' Michael Portillo also said that he felt the fire 'has sent a shameful image of this country around the world - to see public housing blazing like a torch is a shameful image'. He said that the one comfort he draws from this is that King Cross and Hilsborough (which it reminded him of) led to dramatic changes in those fields and there will now be dramatic changes in public housing. I only hope he is right.

Watch the video on that last link by a human rights lawyer, Aamer Anwar.

Bloody hell, mostlyharmless. A trustee of Shelter?
Shelter says 150 families are made homeless every day. They just don't expect them to be all in the same place.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/06/16/powderkeg-britain-people-died-in-grenfell-tower-because-they-are-poor-and-the-media-are-trying-to-hide-it-strong-language/

Link from Guardian breaking news:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/manufacturer-of-cladding-on-grenfell-tower-identified-as-omnis-exteriors?CMP=share_btn_tw

Latest is that the manufacturer of the cladding confirms that the cheaper and more flammable cladding was used on Grenfell Tower.
Who made that decision to use inferior quality we don't know yet......

I think I can safely assume that the PM has as good security as the Queen - as to honesty, I've no idea.

I have learned to assume isn't wise, I assumed some people were honest , such a shock to fund ones assumptions are so wrong,

Yes, mostlyharmless, the tower blocks were safe until they were clad with flammable material.

In Hull there are lots of tower blocks. Many of them have been clad. The tallest have been reduced in height. Even the hospital has been clad.
However, the cladding is horizontal, not vertical, with fire breaks, and no gaps for the cladding to act as chimneys.

When a block or building is being refurbished, the architect, surveyors, fire officers and lots of other people are involved. Any company involved in the refurbishment has to have indemnity insurance for problems like this.
If it is found that anyone cut corners on the specification of the cladding, that person or company will be at fault.

Annie I assume that the prime minister's security would be as tight as any royal.

I'm sure modern purpose built towers are safe. It's these old ones with so many refitting and renovations that are worrying. The architect (I think it was) of Grenfell Tower was horrified by this fire but said it was very fire resistant originally as concrete doesn't burn.

I doubt security of a politician can be compared with the security of queenie

TBH I personally have no problem with high-rise living ... if I could afford it would live in one of the towers in The Barbican.

Over the past days there have been references to the major fire in a block, 75 floors, in Dubai - pictures show huge flames licking up the side of the building. Apparently there were no injuries, never mind deaths, as the internal safety features worked as expected and everyone was able to evacuate the building.

I looked the other day but couldn't find anything. It may have been a proramme on the tv but years ago or something I read.

Some people may prefer to live in a high rise flat, of course, although I would not, but it goes without saying that they need to be safe with adequate exits.
One staircase where people are struggling to go down and firefighters trying to get up is totally inadequate.

I listened to a discussion on radio 4 yesterday (possibly Wednesday??) mostly and some people said they felt lucky (privileged even)to live in a social housing tower block when the alternative could easily be homelessness or living in some grotty overcrowded, overpriced private rental.

Poor poor people.

jalima yes I'm sure that low rise housing is nearly as land efficient as high rise. The difference is marginal anyway, but can't find figures to prove that.

Thanks for the link dj negligence, buck passing and underfunding at all levels.

I agree mostlyharmless
However, in an area like London then land will be at a premium and limited, but I am sure I remember reading many years ago that the space required around each high rise housing block would be sufficient for the same number of houses. That may be wrong.

DH is horrified that in all his years of working, sometimes in high rise blocks and dealing with health and safety issues, that the rule in case of fire was not to proceed down the staircase as quickly as possible but to remain in their flats.

That's the lovely media for you...

ooops sorry forgot we had ended our conversation ww no need to respond.

Not sure how her original excuse of "security" will have changed. Mind you that has disappeared with her Maj.

This whole tragedy is so complex. I wonder what we are doing in 21st century Britain to be housing so many people in concrete blocks in the sky. Renovations over the years have seen asbestos (fire retardant) removed, plastic cladding installed (for energy efficiency and looks) and gas installed.
The simple, but ugly, concrete blocks designed in the 1970s with one stairwell for escape have been so altered in the last 40 or so years that perhaps they need a major rethink.

There has to be an inquest , it's law,

There is still time for TM to talk to people and there will be for a while yet.

Very clever to use Diana tatics, rule 1 make sure there are cameras ,rule 2 make physical contact . Guaranteed to earn awwwww how caring she/he is.