London fire

I meant the borough, sorry if it wasn't clear. Why on earth would I mean everyone in it, they've just elected a Labour MP.

I should qualify, my use of the word "richness" does not mean affluence in this case, more the ethnic and cultural diversity.

because K&C (the richest borough in the country) just want such low life out of their borough.

Are you are a Londoner Rigby46? That's not true for the majority of us who are property owners and reside in the capital. We choose to live here, cheek to jowl, because of the diversity, because of the richness.
Who do you mean by K&C exactly, which people or body of people?

They did mention helicopters but the down draft would have fanned the flames. I suspect there are flight regulations over a highly populated area.

I am wondering, why aren't fire planes used for this type of incident? We have them here in France to cope with the forest fires which happen nearly every summer. They are low flying, light aircraft and they fill up with water at the nearest airport and then circle over fires dropping their water. Is it because it would interfere with the flight paths? I am thinking that those poor souls on the top floors might possibly have survived if water could have been dropped from above. Too late now though. RIP.

For want if a nail etc?

Cut backs under a Tory government

Sprinklers not installed when renovations were carried out unde s Tory government

A 24 floor block of flats but fireman can only reach 12 floors built by a labour government

slutty and lillie that is exactly what the survivors are saying. Now whether it is true only time will tell, but it comes to something when those poor folk could even think like that.

The residents association were more than articulate - they were simply ignored because they weren't considered to matter and because K&C ( the richest borough in the country) just want such low life out of their borough.

That's a preposterous suggestion sluttygran and horrifies me. No one would stoop that low. That could be children I teach or patients my DS sees at his GP surgery. Unthinkable evil.

Nowhere is the divide between rich and poor seen more starkly than in housing. People have told how "improvements" to the tower were done on the cheap, how there were no alarms, no sprinklers etc. Those living in neighbouring mansions certainly wouldn't put up with living in a potential deathtrap, so why should the poorest in society?
I fear the same awful thing happening in our East End of London where renovated posh town houses are selling for £2 or £3 million while the old tower blocks are full of safety hazards. If it's possible for one type of older property to install state of the art safety features, then why shouldn't the other neighbouring buildings have the same treatment? Was the problem in West London a one-off local problem, or are we overreacting to think it might happen again in a different location?
Why were the residents' concerns ignored? Is it because the people were less articulate, or more likely because money speaks louder? Will we just hear the same old "we must have a proper investigaton, we must learn from this tragedy"?
So many questions, so much division.

It appears that there are suspicions that the fire was NOT an accident, and that a massive insurance claim followed by profitable luxury rebuilds on the valuable site was the intention. No regard would have been given to the poor people living there.
I hope with all my heart that this is not so - but if it is, shall we ever know the truth?
I am beginning to think that there is nothing to which people will not stoop in pursuit of profit.

Exactly as Rigby and J52 have said, it isn't public bodies, it's government action I. Reducing council budgets. This forced l.a's to put so much of their work out to the cheapest tender. The main criteria for selecting a company to build, maintain or refurbish social housing is cost. I hear it's 90per cent cost 10percent everything else.
In addition our building regs need updating. I
Our council has lost 40percent of its budget. Front line services are being cut. Historically, council departments like social work and housing had established links and relationships.
There will be anger but let's try and utilise it to ensure responsibility is put where it needs to be and changes made.
The people made homeless must be rehoused in this area, not shipped out to less expensive area. Especially, they mustn't be shipped to the north west and north east, on the basis of cheaper rents.

Ask who in the Tory party is/has dragged their feet on fire regs etc. Wonder how they are all feeling today.

From the 1990s onwards LAs, under cost cutting expediency , have done away with their Architect and building maintenance departments.
These are now put out to private tender. Once those jobs were done by saleried employees, who's main aim was to do a good job within budget, usually under an annual review.
Now, those jobs are in the hands of profit making organisations, who answer to share holders, not the public.

The poor, the old, the disabled, the dispossessed, the mentally ill......

Coco it isn't public bodies that have to learn - it's politicians of many shades but particularly blue that have to learn that the state has responsibility to safeguard its citizens and that one of the way this happens is by ditching neo-liberal values and economics and embracing the fact that the properly funded state provision of many services is a good thing, that tax is a good thing in that it is the welcome price we should pay for living in a safe and civilised society .

Listening to a fire regs man this morning. He was saying that the rest of the world looked on in disbelief when it became clear how the tower had been built with only one stair well etc. It is done for cheapness and profit. People's lives are worth nothing. It feels at the moment that the poor are expendable.

Why are families, the elderly and people with mobility problems housed in high rise flats? It beggars belief.

I think once all this sinks in, many people - and of course especially those personally affected by this tragedy - are going to feel very, very angry, and rightly so.

Yet again we have a private company contracted to manage K&C Council social housing, and not listening to complaints of residents' association. In a day when the news also concerns the cost of Atos and Capita assessing disability benefits exceeding the cost of the benefits had they been left as they were. So many lives ruined while private companies and shareholders get rich. In God's name when will these public bodies learn? I am so angry

I watched Channel 4 News to - I do most evening as it seems to be more nuanced (my opinion). They did say that the council were block booking hotels which is probably a good idea as the people involved will have other who know what they have been through with them.

My fireman across the road has a young family and a jack Russel called Dave. He went to work yesterday and hasn't yet returned home.

Thank you to those brave, brave firemen. They came out of the building with shields over their heads carrying a person. As soon as the casualty was passed on to others they turned around, shields still held over their heads and went back again. We owe these brave men and women so much.

I watched channel 4 news as well whitewave. Excellent, if distressing coverage of this tragedy.
The emergency and health services in London have been incredible.

Just read that 44 families, disabled and elderly have been rehoused by the council already.