Thank you for the Politics thread.

No one should tolerate bullying grannypiper, but equally no one should be expected to tolerate prejudice (opinion not based on fact) which is what your "Monica please dont let the bullies win" appears to be. If you can back it up please point out the post, either on this thread or elsewhere and I will, personally, report it to GNHQ.

If however you are just being intolerant of others opinions I suggest you withdraw you accusation - whoever you were intending to attack.

Oh here go again - making up what my post said - where on earth did I say i thought your post was aimed at me? Am I not allowed to have a response to a post aimed not at a specific person but was just a generalised tirade? That's the second time today that a GNer has deliberately misread a post of mine and then had a go at me for saying something I never said. It smacks of desperation - so desperate to have a go at me that some posters read what they want to read.

rigby I named no-one but if you feel my post was aimed at you i must have touched a nerve. Everyone is entitled to post their thoughts on here without being shouted down by people with a different outlook. Monica's veiws are as important as evry other Gnetter's.
Certainly no tirade from me this morning, just a calm post saying the bullies are a disgrace and i am sure the majority on here agree.

grannypiper what on earth brought that dare I say 'tirade' on? Wow wow and wow again and here's another wow for good measure.

M0nica I think complaining that there is not enough information and that you find a thread one sided should, as you suggest, make anyone of us go out and get information and bring it back for us all not wait for the tide to change.

No one is bullying grannypiper but you are whatifering and distracting from what is a very good thread.

Thank you for this thread Nandalot. I am certainly grateful for what I have learned from those prepared to spend their time informing us. If it appears to be one-sided on any thread then surely it is for those who know - or can find - the other side of the discussion to do so. You really can't expect just a few people to do all the research for you.

As for the other side of the Brexit argument you are on, there were four people talking about it on 'Today' this morning. Mandelson had suggestions to make; Gove and Boris were all cant and obfuscation and Nick Clegg also made suggestions. If I had time I would go back to the broadcast, as I have done in the past, and type it up for you but sadly I don't today so anyone who wants to tell me that my opinion, based on the fact of having heard these, is wrong, actually needs to go and listen for themselves.

.grannypiper, well said

Monica please dont let the bullies win, you know some on here cant stand anyone not hanging on their every word. Just remember you should feel sorry for bullies because their lives are so rotten and full of hate and rage that they don't have the ability to understand that other people are entitled to a view too ( bit like a 2 year old) Enjoy having a sparkling clean kitchen &

Please read all my post DJ. I said that I am, at the moment completely confused and uncertain on the best way forward on Brexit and was looking to posers on this thread to put forward ideas for me to consider and respond to in order to develop my own ideas.

A tirade is a speech/post of criticism and/or disapproval, so takes only one person and a discussion starts with one person putting forward some ideas for the consideration of others.

I have suddenly realised that by writing the above I am contributing to those facets of current GN political discussions I criticise further up, bickering between individuals rather than substantive discussion on matters of note. I am off to something more meaningful and interesting, like cleaning the kitchen and won't be back.

No, Ana, I don't remember seeing many Conservative supporters discussing their reasons for that support, on GN, but I would be interested to read it if they did.

Anti-Tory tirade - says it all really

Do you think that this link

ukandeu.ac.uk/

is partisan? I don't. Have you actually checked who is doing the research?

ukandeu.ac.uk/experts/

Or do you just write it off because the link comes from me? In which case I feel sorry for you as you are missing out on some excellent research from some brilliant experts.

Are you not worried that the Brexit negotiations start tomorrow and nobody knows what is happening - because I am, and obviously so is Rigby, which is why the thread was started.

Sorry, Monica, you called it another anti-Tory tirade. How could it have been another anti-Tory tirade? There was only the OP on it, yet you espected a discussion.
YOU could have been the start of that discussion, but you preferred to go on this thread and complain about it. Why?
It was YOUR chance to do what you wanted. Why didn't you?

MOnica Your last phrase "often trigger the start of my own research efforts" is important to me.

I have far too much time on my hands since I've been semi-retired . I can't get into daytime TV (or most TV for that matter) and am really enjoying having the time to do what I never had the time to do, which is to learn. In my case, I'm fascinated by learning about how societies work and keeping my brain active.

I belong to a number of groups and feeds such as Twitter, which gives an opportunity to link with some of the greatest thinkers of our times. I feel so privileged.

I'll never find the "meaning of life", but discussing it is what keeps me ticking over.

DJ, you underestimate me. When I wrote my post there was only one post on the thread, and it was mainly anti-Conservative politics rather than Brexit.

The fact that the current government is up a creek without a paddle, is irrelevant to the discussion. Here is our chance to say what we understand and would like to see from Brexit.

I currently am also up a creek without a paddle on this subject and when I clicked on the link I hoped to read GN member's take on what they thought ought to be happening to read and consider.

Links are extremely useful, especially those coming from sources with partisan politically views that I do not agree with and often trigger the start of my own research efforts.

Don't try, daphne. It's appreciated by many on here.

I hadn't actually noticed that you post a lot of links daphnedill - certainly not as many as some do.

And your posts are, as you say, not radically left-wing!

I guess on one of those people who posts lots of links.

I post links to provide sources if I make a claim about statistics. I hope the sources I quote are reliable - they're usually the ONS, offical government sources or a think tank, such as the Joseph Rowntree Foundation or Resolution Foundation. One is leftish and the other rightish, but both use proper researchers and reliable sources.

Sometimes I post links to "experts", which I do so that people know something or other isn't just my hare brained opinion.

I also post links to articles, which are too long to summarise and I think people might find interesting. Professional journalists are (or should be) more articulate than I am, so linking seems the quickest way of saying what I want to say.

I don't consider myself a "left wing supporter". I have never even considered myself to be a socialist. I'm left of centre, although getting more angry and left wing with age, but I certainly don't fall into any category. I feel I know more about economics and politics than I did five years ago and I enjoy discussing my views. I have been interested in social history for ages and it's fascinating to see how history, economics and politics link up. The links I post, not suprisingly, support my views, but nobody's forcing anybody to read them.

Sorry if that makes me seem school ma'am-ish. I guess that's what I am and it's quite difficult to get out of the habit of trying to be rational and wanting to inform.

It seems conservative voters have more sense that to talk to brick walls

You're surely not suggesting that any Conservative supporters actually discuss their reasons on the political threads FarNorth?

Have you actually read any?

It's nice to know that some GNers like the politics threads as it can be easy to get the impression that that isn't the case.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the Conservative party at all, but I am genuinely interested in why some people do support them.
I like to read the points of view of "ordinary" people as a change from politicians and journalists.

Monica, you've criticised a thread that only has 8 posts on!

Why don't you post something on from your point of view?
Post some facts on that you know about the Brexit negotiations?

If you don't know anything, this is a brilliant place to start.

ukandeu.ac.uk/

Did I say it was a "problem" to me Rigby?? I simply made an observation, gsve a personal opinion, and now I am accused of criticising!! I rest my case.
I am lucky that I see no problems in the world, only challenges!

But Lillie that's not anyone's proble but yours is it? It's certainly not fair to base a criticism on that. And anyway, it's only through debate that we can sort out the facts - or discuss the alternative facts we are being presented with

MOnica Rose coloured spectacles maybe? Bit of an outbreak of that on GN it seems - well that and selective amnesia perhaps?