Brexit: On a scale of 1 to 10, where do you stand?

I'm afraid that promising me bright futures does nothing to persuade me that any of you particularly care about the fact that practically all economics focused commentators are saying that the UK will be irrevocably poorer post-Brexit. Optimistic ones say that it might recover after several decades.

In the meanwhile, buying British isn't going to work an economic miracle; it didn't work in the 60s, when we actually produced things to buy, and it isn't going to work now.

Tegan.- We're over a year into this and nothing has been achieved. We can't even get started because this government can't decide on how decently [or not] we should treat EU people living in this country.

That's blatently untrue! What deceptive spin you've used!

Right now the conditions regarding EU nationals at home and abroad is being considered, by all parties. It's in the discussion stages and once an agreement has been reached we'll hear about it!

Unless of course you have privileged insider knowledge!

The negotiations are going to be lengthy, that we know, so to imply the government cannot make decisions is deliberately misleading.

This is new territory for the EU and the UK. Nothing will be decided without long drawn out discussion!

Maizie D -practically all economics focused commentators are saying that the UK will be irrevocably poorer post-Brexit.

But, as economists they can only speculate. Their predictions now, in 2017, may have no bearing on the future in any country, given constant market fluctuations.

Prediction and speculation. That is all any of us have right now, no matter what side of the Brexit divide we're on.

1-10. It's off the scale now that I know that Michael Heseltine receives €90,000 a year in subsidies from the eu. And, he charges £45 for you to look round his garden that our taxes helped to build.

But, as economists they can only speculate.

That's right, Day6, they've only studied the behaviour of money for many,many years, what do they know about it?

Who needs experts when anybody can speculate...

The anti-knowledge stance of some people is really frightening

Surely the people that have been wanting us to leave the EU for many years and the people that persuaded others to vote leave should have formulated a plan of some kind a long time ago, even if negotiations have only just started. And is it ok for Farage to persuade people to vote leave even though he's paid by them [for doing sod all] but wrong for Heseltine to defend an organisation whose membership of he feels benefits the country as a whole [not just himself?].Double standards?

While we are still in we cannot lawfully have trade agreements with other non-EU countries but we can have them all ready to sign once out. As the pound drops in value it makes it easier to export our goods to other countries. Our manufacturing industry is buoyant at the moment. We need to push this so more equal split between services and manufacturing industries. Never good to put too many eggs in one basket. Our services industry will be hit but US has said it is happy to deal with UK services post Brexit. Dr Fox will have to work hard to sort out services customers for UK after Brexit. We may have a few lean years post Brexit but being able to trade with whole world is potentially better market place than just EU. We can still trade with EU through WTO. I am optimistic outside of EU. We must hold our nerve and focus long term.

Tegan2
I quote from George Monbiot in the Guardian.

"I'm talking about the most blatant transfer of money from the poor to the rich that has accured in the history of universal suffrage: Farm subsidies
The more you own or rent, the more you get"

Then why did so many farmers vote leave?

*Tegan2
Where do you start to answer your question.
Our farmers are very unhappy with the fact that they receive only 7% of the whole eu farm subsidy in spite of the fact we are the 2nd biggest contributor.
Being told that you must grow 3 different crops.
Being told you must leave land unused.
Being told what pesticides you can use.
But I think the biggest problem is the huge growth of 'farms' in Eastern Europe, over 6 million in the past few years. They know about the huge corruption in this field ( no pun intended) but even if all these 'farms' were legal the competition to our farmers would be huge.

Isn't set aside and control of pesticides important, though? Will farmers adhere to that sort of thing once we're out of the EU. Again, it's things like that that worry me as I don't have any faith in environmentalists such as Gove . Thanks about the info re the large farms in Eastern Europe, though.

*Maizie D - That's right, Day6, they've only studied the behaviour of money for many,many years, what do they know about it?

Who needs experts when anybody can speculate...

The anti-knowledge stance of some people is really frightening*

It is really quite amusing Maizie that you see your premise as a fact and accuse me of 'anti-knowledge.

Economists look to trends. They predict what they THINK will happen to investments. They cannot KNOW.

If you are not aware that markets fluctuate and that economists, despite their experience, cannot guarantee ANYTHING, then I feel sorry that you lack awareness yet have the gall to accuse me of lacking knowledge! Oh the irony!

Think on - if economists KNEW for certain that borrowing, spending, investments etc were going to be profitable and that the pound was going to be strong (or weak) against the dollar and other currencies, long term, they'd be laughing, and so rich they'd not be working as economists.

They look at trends and tend to provide forecasts, that's all, and they cannot guarantee their accuracy.

Tegan2
I have to admit that a don't know much about Gove 'in his new job'
Most probably he will be moved on when by the end of negotiations.
I have every faith that our farmers have learnt over the years what is bad for our crops and won't slide back.
As for the set aside, once again I believe that farmers will act in the best interest for their business and for the country.
I hope that the powers that be realise how important our farmers are going to be in the future. There will always be some rogues where pesticides are concerned but I have every hope that most will not slide back.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/24/us-chlorinated-chicken-not-ruled-out-by-no-10-in-pursuit-of-trade-deals

sumofus has a petition to Waitrose to ask them to keep EU food standards after Brexit, just in case anyone wants to sign it.

It's not looking to good for the German car industry. The DAX dropped to its lowest for 3 months, share holders are dumping their shares in the industry. It's more or less confirmed that the whole industry colluded in the emissions scandal.
Added to that their exports are costing more because of the value of the euro has risen.

What does the German car industry colluding with the emissions scandal have to do with Brexit?

Where did you see that about the whole car industry colluding petra

Welshwife
The local ( German news in English.
I know many were hoping that it was the The Daily Mail or the Express, but as you see, it wasn't. Sorry to spoil your fun.

Not at all - we get versions of the Local too - did not see it in the French one.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/25/brussels-attacks-liam-foxs-ignorant-remarks-chlorinated-chicken-eu-trade-deal-us

Maybe foxes couldn't care less what sort of chickens they eat.

This is what the Americans do to chickens.
Do we really want that? We are having world-wide problems with antibiotic resistance. It can't get much worse.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/25/chlorinated-chicken-trade-britain-us-food-standards-globalisation

I saw that on the BBC news and wondered how that compared with the amount of chlorine that is put into our tap water.

Not that I want these chickens to be imported here because I think the chlorine wash is used instead of better welfare standards for poultry rearing in the USA.
That being said, we have high rates of campylobacter and other health problems in poultry production in this country and in the EU.

Has the TTIP between the EU and the USA been shelved now or postponed and would this have included import of meat from the USA to EU countries?

The Guardian link from George Monbiot answers that question about chlorine in tap water, Jalima.

I will have a look tomorrow.
Sometimes when I turn on our cold water tap the smell of chlorine is over-powering.