London Fire -2

“Before the inquiry starts Sir Martin will consult all those with an interest, including survivors and victims’ families, about the terms of reference. Following that consultation he will make a recommendation to me,” she said.

“I will return to parliament with the final terms of reference once this process has taken place. Then the inquiry will begin its work. "

Theresa May said that. Has it happened?

I am not doing that. I am telling you what David Lammy thinks.

Grumppa, why did the government say the residents would be consulted about the terms of the enquiry, then impose those terms?
Why is that acceptable?

He was appointed to do what the Government set out the terms of the enquiry to be. If it's not what the residents/survivors wanted, that's not his fault. He was just being realistic. In other words, don't shoot the messenger.

I'm really surprised durham that you, who is normally so conscientiously insistent that everything must be even handed and transparent, is already questioning the validity, appropriateness and ability of a judge simply because of his gender and colour. He has been honest, right from the start, as to what he thinks he can and cannot deliver. He has made no false promises. But to seek to reject him for nothing other than his gender and colour is something that you would not tolerate if this was a black woman who was being rejected on the same grounds.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/02/i-stood-there-i-felt-helpless-relatives-recall-grenfell-tower-as-they-lay-loved-ones-to-rest

80% Muslim, it is thought.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx4IBBUIjog

Lammy's interview by Sophie Ridge.

Grumppa, the residents/survivors were told they would be asked about the scope of the enquiry they wanted. Then a judge was appointed who told them what he was going to do.
Does that seem fair?

I am posting my opinion on Lammy ,

As I see it, the judge has warned that the terms of the enquiry he has been asked to undertake mean that he may be unable to answer all the questions to which answers may be sought by those affected by the fire.

It seems eminently sensible to me that he should make this clear at the outset, rather than allow unrealistic hopes to be built up of what his enquiry will achieve. Complaints about the scope of the enquiry should be made to the government, not to him.

But I'm a white middle class male, so I must be racist, sexist, classist, towerblockist, and anything else that springs to mind; the one thing I and my ilk cannot be is a rational human being.

Heigh-ho, I'll get over it.

No he isn't, Annie. You're just going to silly extremes again.

So if a black/Asian family have their car driven off the road by a white female the family should be consulted as to what colour/sex they want the judge to be?

Lammy is doing much damage to the victims, and the enquiry, could it be a deliberate act?

By the way, David Lammy said it was a shame a woman OR ethnic minority judge could not be found.

But he has already told them that he is not going to be able to do what they want him to do!
Is that not important, or is it only the judge that matters?

Twoi years ago an enquiry was set up by May into deaths in police custody. It should have reported last summer. The report has still not been published.

What faith can they have in May?

whitewave Sun 02-Jul-17 20:46:44
Yes, absolutely, that is the least that they deserve

All this talk of the unsuitability of the judge is going to make them anxious and apprehensive. I am sure he is aware of their concerns and the gravity of what he is undertaking.

I doubt whether anybody would tell her that, unless they wanted her to turn it down.

I thought she would be good because of this report.

"Raising the Bar: The Handling of Vulnerable Witnesses, Victims and Defendants in Court".
There will definitely need to be some of that.

Cheema-Grubb does look as though she would be a good choice, according to her wiki page. But she seems to specialise in serious criminal trials doesn't she; so would she have the experience to deal with an investigation such as this? And she's vociferous in her demands that gender and ethniticy should play no part in the judicial system and so may baulk at the thought that she was being recruited because she happens to be an Asian woman.

The residents were informed that they would be consulted on the scope of the enquiry. They haven't been.

'As for the public inquiry into the fire, it is clear that the retired judge appointed to head proceedings, Sir Martin Moore-Bick, has already stumbled badly by telling residents on day one that he might only offer them a “limited” investigation.

The inquiry exists not only to examine the cause and prevent future disasters but to restore public confidence. That means survivors and residents must be consulted on its scope – not presented with a fait accompli.

It is doubtful that Sir Martin can recover credibility among those whose views will matter most.'

From an editorial in the i.

I think that it is important that whoever carries out the job, he/she should have the trust and confidence of the victims.

In my view they have suffered enough, and at the very least they should have the confidence that the judgement is fair and correct.

I don't understand.

There was a cross-section of society, many of whom lost their lives in that tragedy. Some were white, some black, some from the Middle East, some Eastern European, Asian etc.

Does it matter as long as the judge does his job properly?

It's a shame Dianne Abbott hasn't 'taken silk'. She would have been perfect.
She's the right colour, can grasp information quickly and would be totally impartial.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbie_Cheema-Grubb

She seems to fit Annie's criteria.

All I said was that it ought not to be someone who seems to be a clone of all those who have resigned from the council because of their lack of probity in this situation.

anniebach you have said what others may be thinking.

“He is a black working class man who I suspect has never, ever visited a mansion and certainly hasn’t slept a night in one therefore he is not suitable to do the job

would be classed as a racist remark if said by a white, middle class MP.

Now - whether or not he is the right person for the job because he may have shown lack of judgement in another case is another matter altogether.

And I've still not heard who durham does think would be acceptable. Only who will not. But you've raised a very salient point Anniebach . To raise ethnicity, gender or colour as a reason to reject any judge as being acceptable is indeed sexist and racist and is to be deplored.

annie exactly!!
I think that corner I spoke about earlier is getting more and more crowded.

So the judge has been judged and it hasn't even started yet. Lammy is another using these victims to score political points .

This is so racist, because many residents of the tower block are not white they should be allowed to select a judge they feel more comfortable with? A judge is a judge and David Lammy should not play the race card.

Must any black/Asian wrong doers only be interviewed and arrested by black/Asian police officers.

Did Lammy complain there were white doctors and nursing staff tending the victims, did he complain there were white firemen ?