London Fire -2

I don't think they have said the 74 (possibly more) are 'missing' Daddima, but rather 'missing presumed dead'. The five identified will be some - possibly all - of the bodies so far recovered.

I agree with whitewave that some bodies may never be found because of the high temperatures. I did post elsewhere but a psychologist was interviewed on a news programme early on. She had lost a brother in the twin towers and it took a year to identify the body. I am sure it will be as long for some of these poor people.

Yes, GGM2 there certainly was gfery and bullying on the other thread......*all aimed at me* so don't you go inferring that your hands were clean on that score!
The posters in trouble with GNHQ deserved it.
Instead of long bossy discourses as Head Girl, please keep to the OP.

A personal post aimed at a poster - to be ignored. As was the post aimed at the OP - also personal and to be ignored

Good posts Gillybob and I agree.

Morgana we are not allowed to ask/suggest/tell posters to ignore other posters. This is bullying whereas gfery is a spectator sport on GN and fully within the rules. If you are at the receiving end of gfery, you have to step back according to HQ and give tge GFers free reign.

I simply tell the gfery poster that I am ignoring them to avoid any silly arguments. Hopefully everyone will eventually get the message and stop all the posts aimed to spite.

I don't suppose anyone does know exactly how many people lived in Grenfell Tower. The Council would have a list of named tenants, and access to the electoral register. Social services would have a list of children brought to their attention. Neighbours might know who lives next door, but where an entire floor has been destroyed there may be no neighbours with the knowledge. Add to that visitors caught up in the disaster, and the situation becomes horribly difficult.

As to naming names and picking on individuals, I think there is a distinction between liability and responsibility. Various contractors may turn out to be liable in various ways, and some blame may prove to attach to the Council for inadequate supervision, etc. But there is no escaping the fact that that the Council owned the building, and as the local authority was responsible for ensuring it was safe to live in. It is also responsible for rehousing its tenants.

I commented early on that officials in the Council were probably doing their best to sort things out, but there has been no visible leadership. The Mayor of the Borough turned up with the Queen; as the Council's figurehead, why wasn't she out there on day 1 supporting the volunteers and talking to the victims? Where has she been since? Why didn't the leader of the Council come out and explain what was being done and what help was needed? Given the enormity of the disaster, he might even have got some sympathy. As it is, the overriding impression is that the people who run the Council, whether elected or appointed, are simply not fit for purpose.

Rant over

Morgana no, they can never really know how many were in the building,friends staying over etc or relatives.They can tell who the official tenants are but that's about all.
Therefore things will be 'dribbling' as missing people from other places will slowly be claimed by anxious relatives, or some maybe not at all.

X posts Grumpaa

Ah well! It's strange how people interpret communications (even those from GN) differently.

I still have the screenshots of a certain poster telling me I wasn't welcome on GN and other examples of her blatant bullying.

What's the difference between "stepping back" and "ignoring"?

Never mind!

I see certain posters wish to continue stirring and bickering even on a second London Fire thread..... shame on you.

I think there is a distinction between liability and responsibility.

Good point Grumppa. My thoughts about this sort of 'off with his/her head' reaction goes both ways. If there should be no blame attached to them then they should have the opportunity to prove that. If there should then I assume this resignation will allow them to skip off into the sunset clutching a very large pension. I would like the decision to be more judicial and not handed down by the sovereign power the government seems to believe it has.

Another personal post - please try and stick to the subject in hand and everyone will be pleased

I have wondered how bad the homeless situation is in that particular borough. This austerity disaster can only make it so much worse.

I think the idea of infrastructure spending on social housing is beginning to make more and more sense.

You're right whitewave. Although no one can begrudge (well actually that's not true - on another forum I have seen a lot of begrudging, sadly) the survivors being rehoused in this block that must mean others will have to wait for more building - should it happen.

Kensington and Chelsea's own social housing strategy mentions that there are approximately 8000 households on the waiting list and 500 are offered accommodation every year. If you look at a map of the borough, you can see that there is hardly any land available.

It's a shame how some of the media is trying to portray the people who are to be rehomed.

Firstly, the flats aren't in the heart of Kensington - not the really upmarket part with elegant houses. It's not just off Kensington High Street, as some have claimed. Forty years ago, it was a bit of a dump, but has been gentrified since then.

Secondly, the flats are being built on the site of an old telephone exchange as part of a regeneration scheme. The land was given to the developer to build mixed use housing.

Originally, it was intended that the housing would be a mixture of social housing, affordable homes and accommodation for the elderly. However, various loopholes meant that some of the flats were built for the luxury market.

Thirdly, the flats haven't been allocated yet. No doubt there are still issues to be resolved about legal tenancies, establishing identity and subletting, etc.

GG that's why I don't think the site of Grenfell Tower can be left as a memorial park, however appealing the idea is. The borough needs more social housing and there is hardly any land available.

It could be said that building more and better housing on that site would be a very apt memorial daphne but we are a long way off any such decision, I fear.

DDL "I bet there were some frantic conversations between the "powers that be" going on to come up with this solution." and some urgent ones organising the buying of these flats.

And I bet THAT is why it has not happened as quickly as would have been hoped, and, perhaps, why the residents had not heard until the media got hold of the story. It would not have been helpful to have it public until it was organised and definite.

Apparently they were bought at "cost price" (good for the developer!) so maybe there were some negotiations under way about that.

DDL "I bet there were some frantic conversations between the "powers that be" going on to come up with this solution." and some urgent ones organising the buying of these flats.

And I bet THAT is why it has not happened as quickly as would have been hoped, and, perhaps, why the residents had not heard until the media got hold of the story. It would not have been helpful to have it public until it was organised and definite.

Apparently they were bought at "cost price" (good for the developer!) so maybe there were some negotiations under way about that.

I don't know how that duplication happened.

I've done a little research on this and I think the City of London Corporation had already bought the flats (which haven't yet been finished) as part of its social housing stock.

There was, as I'm sure you know, some pressure for empty property in the borough to be requisitioned. I suspect what's happened is that the government got to hear about this development and insisted that Grenfell Tower survivors were put at the top of he list.

Apparently, the flats haven't been allocated and rents haven't been decided. "Affordable" rents would be much higher than current Grenfell Tower leaseholders pay, so there needs to be some agreement. It's possible that money raised through charity will have to be used to make up the shortfall. This isn't the end of the accommodation issue - yet.

Grenfell Tower had some three and four bedroom flats. I don't know if there were any survivors from them, but they will have to be found accommodation elsewhere.

I don't know either - GN gremlins?

Live on BBC Parliament free view 130.

Statement from the PM Grenfell Fire.

Theresa May has just given a Live Statement to Parliament using a contrite tone and if you listen to what she has said all is made clear and answers the questions posters have been asking.

I know I will be mocked but she gave a comprehensive Statement and I hope the terrible trauma the residents have suffered will be the priority and not the politics nor apparent hatred of Theresa May but that may prove to be a stretch too far for some I fear.

It is interesting to listen to Parliament and of course you cannot beat hearing from the horses mouth and not rely on the media or activists blogs who sadly have their agendas that sometimes cross into partisan politics.