London Fire -2

I agree with daphne that it's not a party political, but it is political and think it's an excellent way to describe the situation.

One can argue that the political ideals that promote cutting back public spending on core services such as public housing, public health, welfare services, state education, emergency services etc etc have also contributed to this dire situation.

Pen that's exactly what I would argue. In a heartbeat.

Annie when a tragedy of this magnitude happens, I think it is right that the people at the top of the organisation - in this case K&C council and the company that manages the housing stock - should step down because it happened on their watch. The level of their responsibilty is why they get paid so much money. I can't help but think the reason why we have seen so few resignations is because the individuals want a pay off to go.

It's all in daphne's BBC link, BR2, only 172 pages in that one.

Pogs thank you for that quote. However, it seems to refer to business premises, not domestic ones, as did a lot of the sites I found.

BBC1 at 9 pm. The week the landlords moved in.
Landlords living in the places they rent out to others.
Will it make any difference?

Pointless taking that advice down from your website.
It's on the back of every flat door.

Anyway, it's a 192 page document.

I think it was because previously the advice was to stay put in your flat if there was a fire in the tower block.The doors were said to be built to keep fire from the insides of a flat for an hour( this isn't fact...before somebody points it out) but said on tv by a resident who did escape or was saved by the fire brigade, he said they were supposed to wait in their own flats( presuming their own flat wasn't on fire of course!)

Lucky there is such a thing as capture, then.
Nothing that goes on the internet can disappear, not even from government websites.

Can you imagine being the police who have to go and seize government computers to find out what was on them?
Government forensic cyber crime unit, who have just been denied more than a 1% payrise by Tory MPs.

Probably because it isn't following the correct guidlines

I agree, Ilovecheese. Resigning shows you are taking responsibility for your own actions or inactions.

skwawkbox.org/2017/06/28/govt-residential-flat-fire-safety-guidance-taken-down-why-grenfell/

The government has taken down the advice on fire safety from its own website.
Why?

No, not sacked, I mean they should resign.

Jen,thanknyou for your advice re how often I post, may I extend the same kindness to you? You don't have to swamp threads with links, try your own opinions far more often than the links

youtu.be/upViHb8z4wY

1984 video predicting fire risk in cladding on tower blocks.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/28/grenfell-tower-legal-nighmare-hillsborough-families-28-year-fight-for-justice

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/28/grenfell-tower-fire-was-tory-austerity-to-blame-or-do-problems-date-back-to-blair

I know that, Annie.
That's why I said I hope it doesn't take as long.
You don't have to respond to every post, you know.

There was cover ups at .hillsborough, the enquiries into the Grenfell Fire are in going still

I don't agree Ilovecheese , the head of the Met shouldn't have been sacked because a police officer killed Ian Tomlinson . There should have sackings high up in the Met for the cover up of the murder if Steohen Lawrence .

Daphne, I don't care if your ex husbands uncle was an expert, doesn't mean he had more knowledge than the several generations of miners who worked in the pit and worked on the tip, they knew who was to blame,

No idea what Shiesmith has to do with this. Gosh you bothered to look for my opinion on her? Sorry but you need to get a life , you only had to ask

Surely part of the reason that people in high positions are given high salaries is that they are being paid to take on responsibility. So if something happens on their watch they should take on that responsibility even if they themselves were not actually responsible. (Does that make any sense? Found it hard to explain what I mean)

I agree Penstemmon. I think the Leaders of one of the councils who were evacuating people had only been in her job for a month and was amazingly active among the people on the ground. We must be very careful not to jump to accuse, sack or ask for resignations until the full story is uncovered.

However, politics sets the scene, describes our view of people in different circumstances, our view of profit and our view of standards that are acceptable or unacceptable. In that way, I feel, politics may be seen as an actor in the devastation.

Six men have been charged over Hillsborough. Manslaughter.

I hope the Grenfell fire inquiry doesn't take as long.

It is a hard line to draw. I had a former headteacher colleague who took over as HT of a school one September. In the first week a group of children went on a school trip, organised and arranged by the HT just retired. Sadly a child died. My colleague, as the current HT was named as the person responsible.

In the current situation, if advice was ignored or active choices made not to follow the advice for reasons of cost then those who made that choice are culpable. If cost cutting is a direct result of government directives then the government also shoulders some responsibility for the disaster.

One can argue that the political ideals that promote cutting back public spending on core services such as public housing, public health, welfare services, state education, emergency services etc etc have also contributed to this dire situation.

Exactly, GG!

I don't think anyone called May a murderer did they. I wonder just how far the some of the opponents of Corbyn will go to make a point - libel, obviously but what more? We have seen that on here but even the gutter press is very careful to get this right. What he said is that they were “murdered by political decisions”. Although I think he should be more careful because those who seem manically opposed to Corbyn will use any twisted version of this as we saw at Question Time today, I have some sympathy with that opinion.

Notice he did not mention any party or any person in particular.