London Fire -2

I thought it was considered bad form to criticise other posters' spelling. Or does that only apply to some posters?

Penstemmon, if it hadn't been for the iftar meal and people coming back from it, more would have died.
We have to be thankful for that.

Boarders? Pirates?

I am sure that is the case. Also as it was Ramadan many flats were also likely to have had visitors for the iftar meal. But yes I am sure there were some desperate people living there trying to improve their lot in UK.

SAAK Let us not make this appalling tragedy an argument to back bloody Brexit.

saak appart from anything else, I suspect you know that more people come to England from outside the EU than from within the EU
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40043483

The only way to control our boarders is to get out of free movement within the EU.

I think you will find in every "capital city" in every part of the world that this isn't possible anyway unless you come into a lot of money etc. It's just the law of economics and a fact.

There is however a huge elephant in the room.

The block housed however many, so many more were unaccounted for or will never be named. How many were illegally here?

I am not the expert SAAK, I just read the article! However my thinking is this: that the lack of political will over that last couple of governments, maybe more, to value the less financially well off helps to set the tone for wider society. The poor are seen as exploitable and often I feel that there has been a dehumanising process which enables governments to pass laws that makes life tougher for those who are most vulnerable.

Do many victims who survived the fire want to buy houses?

why do you think this has come about then pen? really why?

It has a lot to do with discussing the shortage of decent affordable property, to rent or buy. As that is what is needed in K&C at the moment it seems quite appropriate.

What has your link got to do with anything? durr

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/25/dispossession-social-housing-crisis-documentary-thatcher-legacy-right-to-buy

The government is not responsible for this.

This came about in my thinking because people given responsibility weren't and they collaborated with contractors that also weren't.

Greed by individuals.

PS. On second thoughts, they can't be, unless somebody dies.

Maybe they will be, if it's proved they ignored warnings.

Yes Roses, but as there were countless posts wanting Kensington bods charged with murder/manslaughter then surely all the councils should be charged with attempted muder/manslaughter

Oh! I'm sure there will be scapegoats.

Fire safety experts issued warnings as long ago as 1999 that this sort of cladding was dangerous. Grenfell Tower residents complained. Fire services no longer had to be involved with safety checks. The issue is that multiple warnings were ignored and the government relaxed legislation.

I have a feeling that it will come out that this is down to individuals greed rather than government.

Yes, Labour Councils as well as Conservative ones have used this cladding.
I can't imagine that any of them rubbed their hands together and said ' this one is cheaper! Don't worry if it's a fire risk'.
This cladding has been used everywhere in England, if not all the UK and maybe going back quite a lot of years.
I suppose this fire, in Grenfell Tower, was a freak fire as it went up the building from the outside which obviously has never happened before.
Now we all know that this can happen, things will have to change.

But it does matter Jen, you were eager to accuse the Kensington council of deliberately choosing unsafe cladding , so does this accusation apply to all the councils?

It was also stated this morning that the original buildings were compliant. It is only when they are clad that the problem occur.

It doesn't matter whether they are Labour or Tory. What matters is that they were capped and could not spend any more on repairs.
Also, the regulations were watered down, so that councils have not had control of lots of building for a long time.
They can grant planning permission or not, but do not have control over construction materials.

Now 25 local authorities have been declared to have properties which are unsafe and more to come, are they all Tory councils? I know Camden is labour.

As Kensington have been accused of deliberately choosing unsafe cladding to save money to help the wealthy is the same true of Camden?