Corbyn and the Monarchy and Armed Forces.

WW

" And hard left becomes hot air and disappears into the ether".

It will always be in the ether to those who deny it's existence I suppose.

Corbyn earns £137.000.00 per year, went to a top private school, lived in a huge house and had a privileged life's style. How can he spout on about workers rights. Look at the salary of Mcdonneld and Abbot,( whose only songoes to a top private school) they are more conservative in their life style than most Tories

LL
1)What he earns is the salary for a leader of the opposition. What's your complaint about that?
2) went to a top privare school - utter and complete rubbish - a bit too much DM reading perhaps? The grammar school he went to became voluntary aided ( ie state funded) in 1950, in the 1980s it became direct grant( state funded) and in late 1990s became voluntary aided agin( state funded). In what Humpty Dumpty world is this a top private school? It was and is selective and has excellent results ( as it should as it's selective).
3) Lived in a huge house - it was a large house (7 bedrooms) which was on the market a couple of years ago for about £800k

On what planet do the decisions your parents make about your education or the house they can afford dictate whether or not your care about workers rights? Do you know absolutely zilch about the history of social reform in this country and who were some of the driving forces? Some even had titles and huge estates or great wealth from manufacturing. I really don't understand what you are trying to say. You can't be left wing if you have had/ have some 'privilege' - whatever that means anyway. Can you not be right wing then if you've had/ have you experience of deprivation.BTW what's a conservative life style?

Oh so no evidence then? Thought not because there isnt any.

And hard left becomes hot air and disappears into the ether

WW

" pogs i am totally unclear where this insistance thst the Labour leadership is hard left is getting us?"

" But this hard left insistence is beginning to sound peculiar".
-----

Actually WW it is ' your ' frequently asked question, insistence, to posters on various threads asking posters who use the term Hard Left what they mean or ' your ' persistent defence of there being no Hard Left Labour politicians that has caused me to post on the matter.

What is ' peculiar ' disingenuous, is you ask for posters to tell you what they think the Hard Left means then you get upset when you get a response (which you don't like) and try to belittle the posters involved :-

You asked theses questions for example -

Wed 28-Jun-17 09:53:40

"I am also entirely unclear, where "hard left politics" has come from."

Wed 28-Jun-17 14:41:09

"So can you give me actual evidence for them being hard left? I am quite interested to understand which of their social democratic policies you consider beyond the pale.

the fact that you continually repeat that they are hard left is done so without a shred of evidence provided? "

Stop asking the question or accept you will receive a response. Simple.

Seriously.....why do you think that 160 or more Labour MP's want rid of him?

I really think ww that you need to get a grip, and realise why Corbyn did not win this last election.

A lot of the electorate know all about Jeremy Corbyn and his life on the back benches, and are suspicious of a man who has dubious friends ,Hamas and the IRA amongst others, and has spent his life rebelling against his own party.
They don't really want anybody with either far left or far right views.
There is so much denial on this forum that he and McDonnell are far left that it's breathtaking.

Oh!!! So now Europe is extreme. rose do get a grip

We are not most of Europe ww and people here tend not to like anything too extreme.As you already know.

And now you are suggesting that social democracy is extreme, we'll tell that to most of Europe

....and it's not popular generally with people in the UK, which is why I think a moderate Leader would do better.

It's a given ww

And neither did I say a dictator. rose

social democratic policies. The clue is in the title

I didn't say a Socialist dictator ww and no doubt Corbyn wouldn't be able to get a lot of things through Parliament if he had won the GE.The electorate didn't want to take any chances though it seems.

Do you mean social democratic rose?

Socialist leaders don't exist in this Kingdom.

I did not say 'another Blair' yyg I said a moderate Labour Leader and not a hard left or if you prefer a Socialist one.Don't forget, that although Corbyn did better than expected, he did not win overall either.Yes, it's true that the electorate is fed up with austerity measures but they were not won over by Corbyn even with the people pleasing manifesto, so my feeling or opinion is that with a moderate leader,( who wouldn't be nationalising everything within sight etc) they would have won.Other opinions are also available.

The problem is that the Tory party have very much occupied the middle ground in rhetoric if not in real actions, so a middle of the road Blairite Labour leader would be seen as indistinguishable from Cameron and May. In offering a real alternative with socialist policies Corbyn has managed to bring back to the Labour Party a really different path which appeals to everyone who believes in the principle of public services and a caring society.

maize but perhaps a Blairite would not have been sufficiently different from the Tories for it to be worth changing? That is what the argument has been. The Blairites accepted the Tory neo liberal economics albeit it with a more liberal face, but never the less they continued with the Tory line. I think people are beginning to want a change from the past 30-40 years and return to a more social democratic form if government.

Another Blairite would have lost hands down

I think you're probably correct but I'm not altogether sure. It would be interesting to know how much of the Labour vote was an anti-austerity/defence of public services vote rather than a 'Corbyn' vote.

RAR: .If a moderate Labour Leader ( instead of Corbyn) had been at the helm, they would have won this last GE hands down.IMHO.

Sorry rose your HO is nonsense. It is Corbyn who has increased the membership of the party, and Corbyn who has got the youth interested in politics. Another Blairite would have lost hands down

There are other countries with similar economies which spend a greater % of their GDP on health, education, police, transport etc. What they do is have higher taxation on the wealthy and corporations etc. Why is wanting these things unrealistically?

What's all this about not having enough cash? We are a rich country (5th largest economy) and so we ought to have a decent education system, health care, police and security, etc.

Since when has wanting these become 'everything' LL9?

Lesser countries manage that. Revenue can be raised so we don't have to borrow.

We do have the means just not the will.

It strikes me that you all make excuses for everything. So it is pointless. I believe in being realistic, we don't live in Utopia, difficult decisions have to be made, prioritise where the revenue is generated and spent. It is a pity we don't have enough cash for everything, everyone wants that , the hard fact is we don't. Our economy is good, just compare it with the rest of the world.

pogs i am totally unclear where this insistance thst the Labour leadership is hard left is getting us?

If you were discussing policies or the manifesto that you considered were hard left - that would make sense.

But this hard left insistence is beginning to sound peculiar

McDonnell calls himself a Marxist!.

There is a denial that to be honest astounds me as to the mention of the term 'Hard Left'.

McDonnell and Corbyn were Hard Left in the days of Militant.

McDonnell and Corbyn have remained Hard Left throughout their entire political careers.

From the Guardian, Labour MP's themselves to the likes of respected commentators such as Andrew Marr the term Marxist is used to describe John McDonnell in particular.

You cannot rewrite the history of McDonnell and Corbyn there is simply too much factual information available.