Corbyn and the Monarchy and Armed Forces.

I've just watched that short clip ana

Without wanting to go into vast explanations, Marx provided us with the best explanation of the capitalist system, there has ever been. All other economic explanations have been built on it but always with reference to Marx whether overtly or not.

Frankly I think he is right when McDonnell describes the banking crash as something that Marx described as the inevitability of the capitalist system. Even neo-liberals accept that !!

To go from there to say that McDonnell is Marxist in his political stance however is simply wrong. He isn't.

McDonnell is Marxist in his acceptance of Marx's economic description of the capitalist system but he certainly isn't a Marxist when addressing Marxian philosophy. There is a difference not understood.

I don't think it is a matter of expressing clear thought, it is a matter of being able to see both sides and having sympathy, to a certain extent, with others in a different situation. Idioms are often true.

GG, no need to google, I have posted a link

My post was actually in reply to whitewave's, GGMk2, but of course your opinion is always welcome.

If you don't have the words to express your thoughts clearly then there's always a cliché or a handy idiom.

I get the feeling that the silent majority would like a middle ground government (I don't mean liberal), not far left and not far right. There are a lot of extremist views on here that do not reflect the vast majority of people. I feel it is a case of empty vessels make most noise!

Not feeling any inclination to Google, thank you Ana. As I said I will judge by the things a person supports or challenges, particularly after seeing where some people on here see themselves by comparison to what the party is actually standing for or opposing.

Don't forget a lot of charities suffered because of the crash. Not that a Marxist would give a stuff about them.

He said it in the context of: he was very pleased that the financial crash happened.
of course non of his young supporters didn't, it was only us older ones who had money in the banks. And before someone says it: yes, I do know how lucky I was to have money to loose.

youtu.be/9lCcFjRhiaw

Marxism. Hmmm that went well....

Yes, he did say he was a Marxist - but it was back in 2013. There is video footage if you want to google.

I am unclear if and in what context McDonnell stated that he is a Marxist. I am also unclear how you can define him as a Marxist from his contribution to the manifesto and his comments on various interviews.

GG MK2

Your point re;-

" After all we have seen people on here say "I'm a Labour Party member" or "I'm a Lib Dem" where, in my opinion, they eschew the politics of each of those parties and actually push the politics of the Tories."

That is a statement which as you say is your opinion and is simply a personal attack basically accusing fellow posters of deceit.

John McDonnell has stated ' I am a Marxist ' , he is therefore a Marxist. Oddly as with the term Far Left the likes of McDonnell et al have dropped being associated with.
They only fool some of the people some of the time.

Do you consider John McDonnell is Far Left/Hard Left of politics when he says 'I am a Marxist'?

I think you would still have to consider whether what they said is what you consider to be Marxist. After all we have seen people on here say "I'm a Labour Party member" or "I'm a Lib Dem" where, in my opinion, they eschew the politics of each of those parties and actually push the politics of the Tories.

So for me it is not the political name you give yourself but the policies you work for.

(Also I haven't heard John McDonnell say 'I am a Marxist')

POGS I imagine to distance themselves from Hard Right. It's not clear what orientation you think unions have, but since most working people can join one and have a vote which counts for as much as anyone else's, I would have thought they were democratic organisations and as such reflect their membership. If people choose not to join they can't complain about the poilitical complexion of those who do.

Do you consider John McDonnell is Far Left/Hard Left of politics when he says 'I am a Marxist'?.

Many Labour MP's themselves have used the term Hard Left when talking of Momentum and Corbyn/McDonnell, we have all heard and read their words.

For example recently Labour MP Margaret Hodge when asked about John Mc Donnells comment about Grenfell she responded "Not in my name , that belongs to the Hard Left of the party."

It doesn't require saying in the Daily Mail , the horses mouth says it. Actually the term 'Hard Left ' has been used in articles in the Guardian etc. so I think that point is as usual a waste of time.

As for the specific question re the Unions perhaps you are perfectly correct in thinking all the Unions are left/centre/right of politics, not hard left. Who'd a thought it.

A further question. Why is being called Hard Left deemed as being derogatory or am I mistaken and if so why do so many call themselves as coming from the Hard Left of politics so proudly? I thought it was a sort of badge of honour to display being Hard Left in your credentials, if not why do so many do it?

If you define the hard left in the correct way, rather than accepting the rights version, there are so few of them that it merits not a single thought, except perhaps as a oddity factor.

I agree Maizie, but I must acknowledge my illogical thoughts as we all have them

I can see that the fairy-tales about the 'hard-left' and it's possible attack on democracy worries my less logical mind.

Nice post GG2

But why worry about the 'hard left' attacking democracy when the hard right and the current leader of the tories are hell bent on destroying it?

this is- this, I

I am not a natural Labour voter but I am happy to vote for what I consider to be very much a Social Democratic manifesto that the LP put forward in the last election.

However, I am aware that fairy-tales are there to teach us to fear (or the original ones were) and I can see that the fairy-tales about the 'hard-left' and it's possible attack on democracy worries my less logical mind.

Because of this is would be prepared to give my vote to put a Labour government, under it's current leader, in power for one government and then review where my vote would go. I feel that, even if this LP turned out more to the left than I would want that cannot do more harm in one government than it could do good in balancing and reversing the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and all that followed her, which has ended up with the extreme right in control of the recent Conservative government and which control brought about the referendum which, in my opinion, was a cowardly act.

More than that the destruction of a equitable society began and has continued with all governments since Thatcher - as it always will under neo-liberalism - and altering that course would be most important to me as many of the things I believe in would follow that.

Agree rosesarered that the Fail is a silly name for the Daily Mail. I'd suggest the Daily Heil is more appropriate.

Annie I can tell that you are not a Labour supporter from your comments about giving unions more power. You might think you are, but deep down, where it matters, if you disapprove of the working man or woman having the right to withdraw their labour in protest at poor pay and conditions then you 'aint no labour supporter sister' to paraphrase a young Muslim man.

I'd be interested in the answer to this too