Gransnet forums

News & politics

Momentum are getting stronger

(411 Posts)
Anniebach Fri 07-Jul-17 10:28:05

Luciana Berger who is chair of the Jewish Labour Movement was re-elected in Liverpool with a majority of nearly 33,000

Momentum activists took nine of ten positions in the LP, one new official has said Berger is now answerable to us!

I thought an MP was answerable to her constituency

MaizieD Fri 14-Jul-17 13:40:45

One could easily argue a case for the British Nanny being iconic in certain circles but she is completely irrelevant to the greater part of the population.

I would echo trisher's comments on the Rees Mogg article and also add that having a British Nanny could also be a horrible experience for her charges; cold hearted, overly authoritarian, bullying and downright nasty; she pops up in this guise in memoirs from time to to time.

Eloethan Fri 14-Jul-17 13:27:21

How could you argue a case for it Primrose?

Tegan2 Fri 14-Jul-17 13:22:46

And isn't our idea of Mary Poppins based on the Disney film not on the books in which she was a much darker, shadowy sort of character [a bit like Rees Mogg himself, perhaps...]?

Tegan2 Fri 14-Jul-17 13:20:56

Well, for a start you'd need a house large enough to accommodate another adult so I doubt if many people could afford that for starters....

Primrose65 Fri 14-Jul-17 13:16:27

trisher My eldest has recently returned to work after maternity leave and can't afford a nanny! It's pretty well paid work.

www.nannytax.co.uk/wages-survey/2016-wages-survey-results

Primrose65 Fri 14-Jul-17 13:09:47

Can you provide a link to the article maybe?

I never thought I'd say this, but I do agree with him that the British Nanny is iconic. It's changed from Mary Poppins to SuperNanny but I think you could argue a case for it.

trisher Fri 14-Jul-17 13:05:12

Being a "vocation" it will of course be paid less and have longer hours. Makes you wonder what century we are living in.

Primrose65 Fri 14-Jul-17 12:59:12

I'm pleased you enjoyed it Baggs

Eloethan Fri 14-Jul-17 12:56:23

The Telegraph article written by Jacob Rees-Mogg I think is worth looking at in relation to the power of the elite to present a view of Britain that reflects its own life experience and values:

"The great British nanny is supposedly going the way of the dodo. For, now the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have decided to appoint a Spanish child minder for our future king, what can lesser mortals do?"
[This assumes that non-royals are in fact "lesser mortals", which I think is a value-loaded judgment that not everybody will agree with.]

"Alas, for the British nanny is one of our nation’s finest traditions, iconic like a London taxi or a red bus ...... important to the country’s wellbeing." [Who decides that the British nanny is "iconic"? I suspect the vast majority of people in Britain have no thoughts either way about nannies and do not see them as integral to or representative of British life].

Rees-Mogg continues to wax lyrical about the importance of nannies and goes on to say:

".... a proper nanny views her life’s choice as a vocation, not a mere job" [He even goes on to say that being a "proper" nanny is akin to adopting a child].

"..... nannies always used to be referred to by the surname of their employer. When I was little [these nannikes] were all part of the families for which they worked and with which they stayed, essentially, until retirement."
[To me, this demonstrates how far removed the lives of people like Rees-Mogg are from those of most people and how seemingly oblivious they are to this fact]

"In this may lie part of the problem. Proper British nannies put the child ahead of everything. They do not like to see children used as accessories, carried around in slings for the convenience of the parents’ social life."
[If, as Rees-Mogg seems to demonstrate, nannies in all major respects care for and nurture their charges to such a degree that they are as, if not more, important than their parents in teaching and caring for the children, surely these parents are indeed treating them as "accessories"?]

"But if the parents only show confidence in the nanny there are no limits to what she will do..... Veronica [his nanny] was always the chief finder of lost items for my father and never refused to do something for him because he was not her charge. Indeed, when my mother was a Westminster councillor and often out in the evenings, she would happily make him supper – as she still does for me."
[So basically then, a general dogsbody who should feel honoured that "confidence" had been shown in her ability to undertake any manner of unrelated tasks at all times of the day and night]

And then he refers to Mary Poppins! What a load of romanticised and deluded nonsense.

Baggs Fri 14-Jul-17 12:39:41

I was talking only about my own post when I mentioned (the lack of) antagonism, T.

The Haidt TED talk is excellent. The photo shows its central tenet. It is very well argued. Very well indeed.

trisher Fri 14-Jul-17 12:22:17

Back benchers of all parties are traditionally outspoken and vote with their own views Baggs Front benchers and cabinet support the leader. There has been some disagreement in Labour and a line needed drawing to show this wasn't acceptable. In fact no one has been deselected by Momentum although from some of the posts on here you would imagine they had.
Where is the antagonism? I simply pointed out that right wing policies had resulted in things many people dislike. The fact that it's true may irritate but that can't be helped.

Baggs Fri 14-Jul-17 12:20:47

Five minutes in. It's really good. Thanks, primrose.

Baggs Fri 14-Jul-17 12:15:17

Off to listen to Haidt.

Baggs Fri 14-Jul-17 12:14:18

I think it is unreasonable to demand support for the Labour Party leader if one doesn't think he's a good leader. It has been very clear over the past year or so that a large proportion of Labour MPs feel that way. Surely it is better for them to say what they think rather than dissimulate?

Also, a demand for support from Jeremy is just a tiny bit rich given how little he supported Labour Leaders and much Labour policy throughout his parliamentary career. He voted against his Party/Leader a lot, which he's perfectly entitled to do. But then so are other Labour MPs now.

One can be a Labour supporter, and many people are, without much liking Momentum.

All of the above has been said mildly and non-antagonistically. Some of you may not believe that but it's true nonetheless.

whitewave Fri 14-Jul-17 11:55:04

smile trish

trisher Fri 14-Jul-17 11:53:41

Not just smell it Anniebach you lit the fire added the ingredients and gave it a good stir.
It is really pathetic, a bunch of people moaning about a group within the Labour Party who have left wing views, support working people and unions (Horrors!!!) believe the party has been dragged too far to the right (How dare they!!) may be young people (what do they know??!!!) and want all MPs and in particular cabinet and front benchers to support the party leader (Unreasonable isn't it!!!)
I wonder how those people feel about the 1% limit on public service pay, zero hours contracts with no guarantee of work, and people living in B&B accommodation because there are no council houses? Not to mention huge waiting lists for NHS treatment and people dying because of disability benefit cuts? Because believe me if a left wing Labour gov had been in power none of these things would have happened. So let's stop blaming Momentum and start looking at the real baddies in this story.

Primrose65 Fri 14-Jul-17 11:46:40

If you have 20 minutes to spare, I can recommend this Ted talk. I watched it this morning and found it quite interesting.

www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind

Eloethan Fri 14-Jul-17 11:14:32

At least those of us who consider themselves to be left wing and who support Labour are happy to disclose our political allegiances.

I think a very few people on Gransnet post comments and links on the grounds that they are simply raising an issue as a matter of interest and have no particular view on it. It is interesting, though, that the links they post and comments they make invariably reflect (sometimes quite subtly) right wing ideology.

Ana Fri 14-Jul-17 11:04:20

Here we go again...

whitewave Fri 14-Jul-17 11:00:24

Tell me about it elegran

Anniebach Fri 14-Jul-17 10:55:17

I can smell a bubbling cauldron again

Elegran Fri 14-Jul-17 10:39:08

"Lies put forward in this thread" It is, of course, unacceptable to call someone by name a liar.

Elegran Fri 14-Jul-17 10:35:15

But does no-one ever, ever, say anything nasty or snipy about any other parties? hmm

Pots? Kettles?

GracesGranMK2 Fri 14-Jul-17 10:22:26

"Was this thread started just for people to give a sort of roll call of hatred of Momentum?"
I am absolutely sure it was. When I see the bile and venom in some of the lies put forward in this thread there is a bit of me that thinks this type of verbal incontinence and weirdly slewed opinion will bring forth the very type of organisation they describe simply as a a counter-balance to the views they express.

The rottenness of the right has always had the pomander of money, self-satisfaction and privilege to cover its tracks but I can see that camouflage being torn away - and not a moment too soon either.

whitewave Fri 14-Jul-17 09:59:12

bags doesn't like to personalise things maize she prefers to debate in the abstract grin