Should MP be sacked for using " n "word

? Is your head sore eloethan from banging it against that brick wall?

I give up.

Rigby...... are you sure this isn't faux outrage?

I think she simply used the expression to illustrate the point she was making.I don't think she intended any racist insult. The word was in common use when I was a child, after all, it is simply a form of the word 'negro'. It is like the word 'Pakistani'...its shortened form is considered an insult. I don't understand why. We are referred to as 'Brits', a shortened form of Britons.

You are just being absolutely ridiculous Baggs, either to be provocative or because you just don't understand the issues. Either way, you are not worth arguing with -yes, I am 'outraged' - with you

Well said (as ever) Eloethan. I agree with you.

My newly elected MP is (I believe) the first female Conservative of African heritage. This is her statement:

"I was shocked and appalled to hear the comments made by Anne-Marie Morris. No one should use that sort of language, let alone an MP. I spoke to the Chief Whip about it as soon as I heard to express my dismay, and I am pleased that decisive action has been taken. Anne-Marie's remarks are an embarrassment to me as a black woman and to the Conservative party. They are not in any way reflective or representative of our values and everything we stand for."

The "outrage brigade"? Perhaps you are not outraged because you have no imagination and so it doesn't affect you. I'm glad there are people who find this use of language unacceptable, whether it personally affects them or not.

Apart from the sheer crassness of using the word nigger, the phrase "nigger in the woodpile" carries with it a terrible historical period of brutality and inhumanity and treats the hunting down and torture of terrified black slaves with derision.

Some black people feel that by using the word amongst themselves they have taken the power of it away. They have experienced the same sorts of overt and subtle discrimination and use the word in a sort of ironic way. (In the same way, gay people sometimes refer to themselves and address one another as "queer".)

Other black people disagree, thinking that the word is just too toxic to be spoken, and that the irony may be lost on some white people who will claim they are being unfairly victimised and discriminated against. My view is that white people who use this argument generally tolerate low level racism anyway and will always try and find excuses for ignorant behaviour.

Baggs if black people choose to use the word "Nigger" in any way they choose they have a perfect right to do so. It has in the past been used by white people to abuse and denigrate them, so historically however it is used by a white person is unacceptable. Most black people would tell you this and if even one of them is offended by it, it is unacceptable. As for the fine definition of the use of the word you claim I don't suppose someone who is likely to use the word as a term of abuse would see any difference. She used the word, she's an MP, someone of standing, then why shouldn't they?

Why am I thinking about Alf Garnett?

This conversation is beginning to feel like 'Back to the Seventies'..

I don't like the word. It was a derogatory, abusive term used to describe slaves. If African Americans (or other descendants of former colonies where slavery was the way huge fortunes were made) want to reclaim the word, that's up to them. It isn't a word that can ever be used in a neutral context. It's too loaded with meaning.
One of the dogs on Scotts Antarctic expedition was called Nigger. That and naming dark brown as nigger brown werent neutral either.

I am watching a series on Netflix called Power and they often say nigger in conversation about themselves.

I hadn't thought about it that way Baggs.

I think it is racist to say that people of colour can use the word nigger but white people can't. I don't agree that it is by definition offensive. I don't think any word is offensive by definition. Context always matters.

Not that that stops the outrage brigade ?

I think the word nigger is not always used in a racist way. I don't think Morris used it in a racist way. I think she used it as a metaphor for a political situation.

The escaping and hiding of US slaves was a political situation too but one could talk or think about the issue of escaping slaves without being racist. One could, for instance, keep quiet about a nigger in the woodpile, or even discreetly help them along. I'm sure some people did.

Bit different trisher and I don't think that she should resign.
She was not using the expression against a person ( the man on a housing estate that you mention, would be racially abusing a neighbour.)
I think she has learned a lesson about language, that will never be repeated again.

As she is an educated woman in a responsible position she is required to speak and act with judgement and thought. In this instance she has made a remark that is totally unacceptable. She should resign. If people like MPs use language like this others will think it is acceptable. How can we punish a man on a housing estate for racially abusing a neighbour when someone like her gets away with having a finger wagged at her?

I agree Nfk

My uncle had a big dog called Nigger. A big dark brown soppy thing he was. Named after Douglas Bader's dog because Uncle was a war time pilot too. I don't think anyone saw it as racist, and also yes, nigger brown was an accepted fabric colour description. And Nigger in the Woodpile was a saying. In the 50s. Even then though it was not a nice saying not just because of the word, or racism but because of its association with slavery. It became bad taste to use way before nigger became a racist word. Certainly in our house. But that was then. Now things have changed the word is no longer acceptable, ever. Just as Black, it seems, as a description of skin colour is no longer acceptable either. Words change their meanings. I find it hard to keep up. However, Ms Morris is only 60, she wasn't born until 1957. I'm ten years older and feel sure she wouldn't have been brought up with that saying in general use.

And what's wrong with Elephant in the Room? Why not use that? She really was very silly.

That too is why the woman's movement was/is always being accused overly PC, as well as the LGBT community.

We must be so careful not to slid back and lose such hard won battles.

It is all too clear how easily they are lost with the sort of xenophobic/ racist language used during the referendum, and how it appears to have unleashed the dogs in the use of hate crimes and hate language.

I think it is fairly easy, but in my opinion rather presumptuous, for white people to feel that the existence of racism is exaggerrated and to make pronouncements to that effect. Many black people would disagree but they quite often don't speak out for fear of being described as "over-sensitive" or of being "bolshie" or of having "a chip on their shoulder". There is also, of course, the school of thought which dismisses any concerns by deeming them to be "political correctness gone mad".

I think probably most non-white people would say that things are much better than they used to be but various pieces of research have demonstrated quite clearly that racism still exists and affects the life chances of black people. Instances of racism woven into the actual fabric of our langugage should, in my opinion, be challenged rigorously because language has the power to diminish and demean people.

bags How can you know nothing about Redwood and Cash? They've around for eons.

If she's really sincere, perhaps she could explain why the phrase is so unacceptable - that way all her social media apologists might learn something instead of just feeling she's being hounded

BTW - 'sincerely' apologised? I don't think so - how did you get to that conclusion?

Well certainly some if us have been clear about it being a racist phrase - and it is absolutely. I criticise her as a public representative because she used it - she may or may not be racist but that's utterly irrelevant in the context of the criticism. She's a lawyer, she should know better. It was not the'heat of the moment' there was no emotional debate going on about which she felt passionately. There is nothing nuanced about the phrase at all and the silenc of the two MPs on the panel with her then and since speaks volumes. You haven't heard of them? Really?