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(103 Posts)
whitewave Wed 26-Jul-17 15:41:39

Thought it might be worthwhile starting another thread. I haven't been keeping up with what's going on as there is do much happening everywhere!!
But what made me prick up my ears was an interview with Professor Lichtman who was talking about impeachment and treason.

He thinks that they are treading very close to Treason. Collusion with Russian will mean treason.

There is circumstantial proof of conclusion.

What interesting if unpleasant times we are living through.

whitewave Wed 26-Jul-17 15:45:05

Anyone following and can they tell me why Trump wants Sessions to go and why he is bullying him on line rather than simply sacking him?

Smileless2012 Wed 26-Jul-17 15:49:26

What about Trump's speech yesterday at a scout's jamboreegrin He began by asking what politician would talk about politics on such an occasion and then proceeded to make it all about himself, how we'd won against all the odds blah blah blah.

You couldn't make it up could you.

tanith Wed 26-Jul-17 16:31:30

Today he's banned transgender people from joining the miliatary even though Obama had been about to allow it but it was delayed.

Smileless2012 Wed 26-Jul-17 16:58:59

More than likely just because it was something Obama wanted to do. I'd be surprised if he knew what transgender actually meant.

yggdrasil Wed 26-Jul-17 17:16:40

My thoughts exactly!

TriciaF Thu 27-Jul-17 09:40:33

In spite of all this, I read recently he still has very strong support in the USA. Mostly from what they call the poor whites (of which there are many).
It's not so much the content of what he says and writes, it's the blustering way he says it that they like.

whitewave Thu 27-Jul-17 09:44:02

I think Trump is riding high on the same phenomena as occurred here over Brexit and to a certain extent in Europe.

The poor and left behinds feel entirely disenfranchised. People like Farage and Trump and LePen etc feed off of these folk and use them to push their agenda.

boermeise70 Thu 27-Jul-17 10:51:12

Under Obama, the Pentagon last year announced it was ending its ban on transgender people serving openly, calling the prohibition outdated.

The Defense Department had been expected to begin formally allowing transgender people to enlist this year. But Mattis on June 30 approved a six-month delay in that step.

Transgender service members already number about 2,500 active-duty personnel, with about 1,500 more in the military reserves, according to a RAND Corporation think tank study cited last year by Obama's defense secretary, Ash Carter.

"To choose service members on other grounds than military qualifications is social policy and has no place in our military," Carter said on Wednesday, noting the existing ranks of transgender individuals serving "capably and honorably."

Advocacy groups said Trump's policy was open to legal challenge under the U.S. Constitution's guarantee of equal protection under the law.

holly100 Thu 27-Jul-17 11:06:03

As a liberal my whole life i fought for equality for all
but that means that people can live as they choose but that also means others who dont agree should be forced to change their beliefs and who they are
. If you feel you were born the wrong sex that is fine and you can live whatever life you want but at the same time you cant expect everything in society to change and cater to you

tigger Thu 27-Jul-17 11:07:28

Harsh opinion but I believe Trump is mentally ill. It also beggars belief that he is still in office.

ExaltedWombat Thu 27-Jul-17 11:08:33

Was there an element of transgender people joining the military in order to get free medical and other support?
Within the context of military service, the old 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy seemed to work pretty well.

holly100 Thu 27-Jul-17 11:13:18

the people voted for him in a democratic election - same way as we did over here - should be accepted - end of

YankeeGran Thu 27-Jul-17 11:14:31

Trump's decision to disallow transgender people in the military is an appeal to his base. I am certain Trump doesn't give a flying fig about transgender people - one way or the other - but the decision will appeal to his core supporters who have begun (finally!) to show some disapproval of his methods, I gather, over the public humiliation of his own attorney general appointee, Jeff Sessions.

I have heard speculation that Trump wants Sessions to resign so that he can appoint someone who will defend him in the Russia investigations (Sessions recused himself because he had had meetings with the Russians - it's complicated!). Sessions HAD to recuse himself under US law. The Russia investigations draw ever nearer to the Trump administration and his wild tweets reflect his own insecurities about daily revelations. It is also said that if there is a new attorney general, he could fire Robert Muller, head of the FBI Russia investigation (there are several), who has asked for Trump's tax and other financial records to see where the Trump money comes from and where it is invested.

This is probably more than anyone wants to know. The issues are complex and the powers-that-be are far from proving treason. Impeachment, if it happens, is a looong way off!

whitewave Thu 27-Jul-17 11:32:20

Whatever Trump is I am sure he not a stable personality. Compare him to the dignity and measured tones of Obama shock

MaryXYX Thu 27-Jul-17 11:54:01

Pence has been strongly discriminatory all along. Not just against trans* people. One theory with quite a lot of reason is that Trump is desperately trying to distract attention from his treasonable collaboration with Russian agents. Attacks on any minority group will do, and he has chosen a small group.

I doubt if either of them know the difference between transgender and transsexual.

Jaycee5 Thu 27-Jul-17 11:56:38

I have no time for Trump but labelling all his supporters as stupid is not going to be helpful. The Democrats (Hillary Clinton in particular) did ten to sound at best patronising and at worst snobbish and demeaning when discussing people who may be inarticulate or less educated but still have a vote and fears (particularly of losing their livelihoods) shared by others.
A recent Democrat win in Illinois was by a factory worker who worked alongside many Trump workers and understood why they felt how they did but persuaded them that the Republicans were not going to help. There has been a similar win by a small farmer in a Republican stronghold who took on the agricultural industry.
Trump is appalling (Pence would be worse so getting rid of Trump will solve nothing) but he cannot be considered in a vacuum and unless the Democrats get their act together by 2018 and stop looking down on people (which admittedly is not always difficult as empty vessels really do seem to make the most noise), the world will be stuck with them.
If you listen to Trump's speech twenty years ago and compare it to now he has definitely deteriorated to a greater extent than can just be put down to age - simply words, more repetition, losing the ends of his sentences, incoherence, contradicting himself without apparently being aware of it etc.
He apparently made the announcement about transgender soldiers without informing anyone else about it and no idea about what to do with those who are already serving, who came out after they were led to believe it was safe to do so etc. Someone needs to give him a play phone so that he can think that he is sending out messages to grown ups but can't actually do any harm.

Jane43 Thu 27-Jul-17 12:03:23

He seems to be a megalomaniac which is a mental illness and also has many characteristics of a psychopath. To make things worse he has the power of a presidential pardon which means he can pardon anybody of a federal offence. In theory he can pardon family members, friends, business partners etc of any federal offence. People are speculating whether he could pardon himself. It doesn't apply to impeachment; I'm not sure about treason, probably not.

Theoddbird Thu 27-Jul-17 12:05:07

I seriously doubt that Trump will last the term....

Craftycat Thu 27-Jul-17 12:08:48

TBH I think the only sensible thing he has done so far IS banning transgender people from joining military. I can see the point that it could cost a lot in medical bills etc. Plus surely a soldier should be concentrating on career rather than personal problems such as this.

I think Trump is a total bad joke but for once I see his point & I never thought I'd say that!

devongirl Thu 27-Jul-17 12:11:59

We can only hope.. and that if he doesn't, Pence doesn't take over.

radicalnan Thu 27-Jul-17 12:30:22

I wonder how comrades cope with transgender people sharing accommodation / showers /toilets etc? It isn't all about the transgender person is it? Other people have to deal with what might be awkward for them. I also think that in combat situations, transgender people would suffer most if captured, some of the zones where action is taking place are brutal to gays and transgender people.

There are many reasons why you can't join the military, this is one of them now.

We seem to go out of our way at the moment to support all sorts of issues related to sex.....transgender toilets being such an issue. I have a friend whose disabled, adult son was unable to find a single toilet in Yorkshire sea side town and had to be changed, hidden by fishing baskets at the dockside. Can't see people taking to the streets about that...and I don't suppose the military would have him either.

Baggs Thu 27-Jul-17 12:31:49

"circumstantial proof"

isn't that an oxymoron? I don't think circumstantial evidence would be sufficient for something so serious as treason, would it?

devongirl Thu 27-Jul-17 12:33:56

I've always thought sex/toilet issues could be solved by making all toilets of cubicle type - am I missing something there?

willa45 Thu 27-Jul-17 12:45:06

His most ardent supporters are for the most part 'uneducated' (not necessarily poor). Many of them harbor strong feelings against 'other' groups, namely immigrant Mexicans, Muslims, LBGTs, people of color, etc.

They feel emboldened to act on Hate because they've been given 'permission'. These are people who don't understand respect, so how can they recognize the absence of it?

What also matters to these 'fans' is entertainment. They are now living the ultimate 'reality' show. His antics, are usually celebrated and upheld by people who sadly can't tell the difference between a schoolyard bully and a leader. A few have awakened with buyer's remorse because in their zeal (and colossal ignorance) they actually voted against their own self interests. They now stand to lose their healthcare.

The healthcare cost issue is also the pretext to exclude Transgenders from the military. The real issue is that Transgenders are not welcome because they are Transgender, period.

His behavior and his proposals are (and always have been) at odds with the core values of most decent, patriotic Americans. It was the other candidate who actually got the majority vote. An archaic travesty known as the Electoral College, gave us our current President.