A divided society-what can be done?

Come to All Saints Church at the bottom of Pilgrim street gillybob there are people living in the graveyard there and one man in the entrance, who moved his stuff when we opened it to the public last HODs day, and assured us, as he picked up the rubbish blowing around, that he tried to keep the place tidy. He wasn't begging and he followed the bloke who was cutting the grass around asking if he could help.
Homelessness is not even necessarily living on the streets you know. It is not having a place to live where you can close the door and have your own space and your own possessions. So all those people living in hostels etc are homeless along with all the sofa-surfers and young people in temporary accommodation or staying with friends.

Do you know that for a fact, trisher?

I find it laughable that some people still blame Margaret Thatcher for anything and everything . As Jalima pointed out it's almost 30 years since she was in power ! (well 27 anyway) . Whilst I don't have a lot of good to say about the woman's policies she did give a lot of people the chance to become homeowners who would never have had that chance. The problems that arise from this is the failure to build more homes with the money from those that were sold. Having said that we should bear in mind that many of those who bought council houses were the ones who moved up the ladder to the next house and the next one after that etc. Helping to fuel the market as we know it .

DJ - Oh, I forgot, we like being a divided society.

Society will always be divided. It always has been. There have always been haves and have-nots.

How do you address that?

Do you suggest the 'haves' are somehow the enemy?

Do you want to penalise the 'haves', many of whom are working class people who have faced struggle and hardship and gone without to 'better themselves' and become 'haves'?

I'd bet that most grandparents here have a darn sight better standard of living than their own parents and grandparents and they saw their much poorer families over the ages do all they could to better themselves.

The Socialist politics of envy despises wealth, even if it's been hard won.

Most people who have a comfortable lifestyle now should feel guilty? We are better off than the poor, the homeless after all?

How should we atone DJ?

Should we sell up, redistribute our wealth, donate it all to homeless charities???

Of course we are divided and the wealth gap grows but tell me just how we stop being a divided society?

Would you be happy if we all made ourselves homeless and invested in sleeping bags? Do we all need to fight the fight against the wealthy from our cardboard shelters in shop doorways?

Most of us sympathise with the plight of the homeless, and poorer people in society who struggle, but only the completely selfless are likely to make themselves poorer in order to close the gap between the very rich and the very poor.

In truth most UK society is living in that middle ground. They are neither rich nor poor, but they survive and can just about make ends meet. Most people from humble backgrounds, like me, thank their lucky stars they can enjoy a fairly decent standard of living. There is not loads of disposable income sloshing around.

We have another strata I'd suggest - the mega rich, the oligarchs, the billionaires and celebrities.

How do they do more to help if (yes IF) they already pay their taxes? I believe tax loop holes could be closed but I also suspect most of us would jump at the chance of a massive lottery win - so whilst we might envy their obscene wealth, should they be hounded for having more? Cardboard shelters and sleeping bags for them too?

The divided society is a left wing smear. Society has ALWAYS been divided.

Tell us how we stop being divided and I'll listen. If you want to level everything down with socialism, history tells us that won't work and it's a political system open to corruption and division too.

I am taking about the homeless who do not have a roof over their heads at night trisher as I think you knew. Not a particular kind of roof. The people to which you refer could have a bed tonight if they chose to . That is what I'm saying . I agree that living in a hostel does not in any way compare with having a secure tenancy etc. I am saying there is no need for anyone to sleep in a graveyard or shop doorway in Newcastle .

Great post Day6.

Yes he was there last year dj and it seems to be his place. Perfectly nice chap, moved his bedding and his cardboard boxes out of the way when we let visitors in. The tombs have evidence of people living in them and the council have tried to stop it by locking the gate but there is access to the graveyard from the other side.
gillybob as Shelter says
You don't have to be sleeping on the streets to be considered homeless.

Day6, the thread is titled A divided society - What can be done?
The whole point of the thread is to discuss what changes we need to stop it being divided.
A shame you missed that.
Yes, socialism would help.

Communism might...

Sad as it is trisher, the man to which you refer chooses to sleep in a graveyard . Not sure what you can do about that. It's s bit like the man who sleeps rough in our town. So many people have tried to help him. He's been offered a room in a shared house, a room in a hostel and even just a bed for the night . The police say short of arresting him ( he's harmless ) they are powerless .

Great post? State the Bl--ding obvious. None of us want to penalise the middle class (some of us are middle class own our houses and have children who own theirs).
We simply want to provide a standard of living for the poorest which is appropriate for the rich country we are. This will not interfere with us being a property owning democracy, it will however stop people who would utilise our freedoms purely for the purpose of profiteering from doing so, by making others lives worse. It will provide decent housing and cities which are places for everyone to live and work.
It was an ideal which underpinned socialist policy after WW2 when there was a greater need for accommodation than there is now and when housing standards were higher and people were treated better.

Communism? As in all the other failed communist countries. Corbyn set Venezuela up as his idea of utopia.

Let's not confuse socialism with communism .

.... and he's suddenly gone all quiet on the subject. I wonder why?

I think, trisher, that the only bits we have left of our empire are the offshore tax havens where all these rich people store their millions.

Every day 150 families are made homeless and end up in B&Bs.
Is that not a sign of a divided society?

"Some councils have been using compulsory purchase orders to turn properties back into homes. But the process can take two years from start to finish and result in a public inquiry before matters are settled. Sometimes the threat of a CPO or an empty dwelling management order is enough to prompt a homeowner into action, but not always. In Islington, planning permission for new developments now includes a threat of action by the council if the properties are left unoccupied after purchase.

The housing charity Shelter says it is “deeply frustrating” that any houses are sitting unused. But its interim chef executive, Graeme Brown, adds: “While it’s vital that councils have the tools to identify and bring homes left empty for no good reason back into use, we need to remember that even filling all the country’s empty homes would not be enough to end our housing shortage.”

That’s certainly true in Kensington and Chelsea where, as of 1 April 2016, there were 2,753 households on the council’s housing waiting list and 1,652 empty homes listed. But it would be a start."

Anyone live on the line of the HS2? Lots of compulsory purchase of houses there. A whole estate to be knocked down near Sheffield.
That's okay, though, because it's to help people cut 20 minutes off a train journey.

www.24housing.co.uk/news/calls-for-housing-first-after-concerns-over-rough-sleeping-rise/

A rise in rough sleeping in Wales.

Where aare all these quotations coming from, durhamjen? It's polite to give your sources.

If 150 families are being made homeless every day one assumes that someone is moving into the properties that the 150 had to vacate.
Our population is growing at alarming rate if this is the case and B&Bs are obviously the business to be in if you want to make a quick buck.

Your proposition sounds quite feasible, petra until one starts surmising that the 150 families moving into the now vacated homes were presumably homeless themselves before getting the property.

Which means not that there is a massive population increase but that there is a constant, if revolving, population of homeless people.

Population does increase year on year and the demand for homes increases in line with the population increase.

We have known for a number of years that the numbers of houses built each year are not sufficient to accommodate this demand.

Birth rates in the U.K. are apparently down quite significantly ( well according to news program on radio 4 today) so the population increase must only be due to imigration them ?

Whoa, * giilybob* don't go there, there lies danger
Although our population has risen by over 2 million in 6 years.

That anyone would support the rights of rich Russian oligarchs and middle eastern sheiks to own property purely for gain rather than use the houses for the purpose they were built for.
I did suggest earlier in the thread that the rich Russian oligarchs could sell these properties (wo whom? - to councils for social housing? - they would need extensive alterations) and spend the money gained building social housing in Russia for the millions and millions there who are homeless.
Philanthropy

to whom?

I'll get my tin hat.....