Newcastle sex grooming

The education system deals with children, not grown adults. You can change attitudes to certain practices in society if it is not just the school system advocating it. Every aspect of society that affects behaviour needs to be participating in making it clear to adults that it is unacceptable. The majority of these crimes are conducted in secret so they know they are doing wrong or they would be more open about it. We need to challenge the behaviour of men who think they can grope women etc as they please. But how many of the women have the nerve to tell them to take their hand of their buttocks or such like in public which is what we need to be doing? Women everywhere are subjected to these gropings when out and about but very few challenge them even in a crowded place. They move away instead.
The element of racism in this case is that they targeted white girls, and the men involved were not . That has nothing to do with them being Muslim. It has everything to do with their attitude to the freedom they perceive white women enjoying. It is about control. For me the most disturbing element in this case is that they deliberately targeted vulnerable girls who, because of their background or mental capacity, were unable to tell the difference between a caring relationship and an abusive one. You don't have to be Muslim, Asian or anything else to target girls in this way. Anyone/group can do it if they have a certain mindset.

Yes, maryeliza, they have all been through our education system. What happened there?

I don't think it's as simple as teaching the girls what danger signs to look out for - somewhere in the mix is the issue of young girls desperate for love and affection and so who are easy prey to the 'boyfriend' idea. Why is their self esteem so low, why is there such a longing to be loved? In as much as there is a 'type' of male who commits these crimes, there is also a 'type' of girl/young woman who is vulnerable to this type of grooming and subsequent abuse. We should also be thinking about this and exploring what can be done to help the victims to feel differently about themselves so as not to be open to the abuse in the first place.

I think an individual can only be re-educated if they are free to be allowed to have that option and open to the idea of questioning the parameters that culture and religion set. So entrenched is the mindset of some it would almost call for debriefing. Islamic culture in it's strictest form not only appears to label many innocuous practices "haram" forbidden, but operate in a covert way. I imagine an outsider would find it difficult to penatrate, indeed that is what is suggested by every report that comes out on such controversial issues like arranged marriages and fgm. I read an article recently which reported that some young immigrant Muslim women, who quite possibly don't speak English, living somewhere such as Bradford are confined to the few streets that comprise of their neighbourhoods where other women lead exactly they same lives as they do. They have no idea outside the microcosm of their world there is another bigger world where women work and take part, make decisions, run corporations and are accepted as equals. Why would they, they are never given the opporuntiy to break out of such a closed environment, their word is controlled by men who run everything. Trying to teach certain ethnicities western values in school, for example "gay rights" isn't something that can be accepted by the pupil if their culture rejects such ideas out of hand. I say that as someone who grew up a catholic which certainly when I was child had unquestioning "blind faith" aspect to it. Times changed for us. Like most of my peer group, there came a time when I exercised the right to develop my own thoughts on the religion I was born into and I did that without threats of violence or reprisals, maybe some sighing and eye rolling which I was able to front out but secure in the knowledge my male relatives wouldn't want to kill or threaten me for any transgressions.

The adherents to certain faiths are juxtaposed between two cultures and it would appear that the men involved in the recent crimes hold such a stereotypical image of how they perceive western women, "white trash up for it with anyone" as there is with the far right who believe all Muslims are terrorists and sex abusers.

www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/anneke-lucass-harrowing-tale-of-sex-trafficking-am/

Definitely no Muslim involvement here.

The reasons for there being silence in the North East until now.
I am pleased that the reporters took the judge seriously enough to let the police get on with their work, otherwise these convictions would not have happened.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/appalling-abuse-newcastles-west-end-13449290

Surely one of the key factors in addressing this sort of abuse is the re-education of some men in our society in their attitudes towards women. They seem to think that because women go out at night, drink, dress as they please, they are fair game. This cuts across all levels such as race, religion, culture of origin, class etc. This case is about deliberate grooming of vulnerable girls by a particular, identifiable group and I would regard it as racist in this instance. Society needs to address the issue of some men thinking they can do as they please. In my view that means we have to educate the girls too to look out for the danger signs even if it treads on the toes of others. You can change attitudes if enough people at all levels speak out but all I hear is a deafening silence.

Several Young British Asian women saying that these are definitely racist crimes . They blame older Asian mothers for the upbringing of their sons . Letting them believe that they are " little princes" who can do no wrong .

Interesting discussion on woman hour (radio 4)

But a blind eye has not been turned - they've been prosecuted.

The people wholly responsible for abuse of children is those that abuse. However, in the Rotherham case the report acknowledged that the police appeared not to understand that an under-age girl cannot, under any circumstances whatsoever, "consent" to a sexual relationship. Girls who were desperate enough to go to the police to say that they were being abused and terrorised were not taken seriously and no serious investigations were carried out. Rather than the perpetrators being investigated and charged, there were further instances of these girls receiving cautions or being charged with drunk and disorderly behaviour - one I recall being found inebriated and partially clothed in the company of several much older men.

I did not say we should turn a blind eye to any abuse but reading this thread it seems muslims are the most guilty

The fact that children are abused in their own homes, and that Europeans/Americans and Uncle Tom Cobbly also commit these crimes does not excuse turning a blind eye to the racist/gang nature of SOME instances of abuse and exploitation of children where this is relevant. It means that an opportunity for prevention might be missed by not addressing this.

More children are sexually abused in their own home by members of their family than any children's home, school , youth club or on the street .

And now we learn there are thousands of slaves in this country

Sadly I think your last sentence almost sums it up dbDB77. I think these men (not just in Newcastle but all of the similar cases around the country) do think that the girls are asking for it. That they're "trash" & "Easy meat" . I watched " Inside Out, North East and Cumbria " last night on catch up (not sure if available countrywide) and the police and social services missed so many chances to save some of these poor girls, it was heartbreaking. Laughing and carrying in in the court, the sentences some of the "men" we're given were pathetic too and hardly a deterrent.

durhamjen - in regard to Rotherham, South Yorkshire police have apologised for not dealing properly with these cases - they say they have learned & changed their procedures and now take victims & their allegations seriously.
Eleothan - I've not noticed any posters kidding themselves that there aren't any white non-Muslim child abusers. However, this is a particular type of child rape on such a large scale that it needs to be addressed by the Muslim community - much as the Catholic Church has had to face up to their complicity in child abuse. I remember at the time of the first prosecutions in Rotherham a Muslim councillor saying "It takes two to tango" - and when Lord Ahmed of Rotherham said that some in his community thought that white girls were "trash" & "easy meat" he was subjected to abuse.

Of course these crimes are appalling but let us not kid ourselves that this sort of behaviour is confined to Asian men - it occurs in all areas of society - perhaps the most prolific of all being the church, but also in children's homes, youth clubs, schools, etc. etc.

There have been many reports of the increasing numbers of white European men going out to less developed countries - Cambodia, Thailand, Philippines, Gambia, etc. etc. etc. - entirely for the purpose of abusing children. Presumably, that is racist too?

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/operation-sanctuary-shelter-sex-newcastle-13448710

I think they manage to deport some - but maybe they have been given British passport rather than having one by birthright.

What makes you think the police were not taking it seriously?

Deportation will rarely be an option as most will have British citizenship.

The sentences for these people need to be long and in hard prisons so the message gets out that this is not an OK thing to do - whatever the race, religion or sex of the victim and punishment will be severe. Certain deportation at the end too wherever they were born. Not sure what could be done with white Brits at the end though as they would not be welcome in other countries

She actually said 'the floppy left' which is a much better and more accurate phrase than 'floppy haired liberals'. I think she's doing a sterling job - reminds me of Ann Cryer in Shipley (?) who was also very outspoken about 'cultural' issues and received a great deal of abuse for her courage. The only thing I would add to the discussion is that to what extent were the police also not taking things seriously because the girls were 'rough'? So there were issues about their attitudes towards the men and how that influenced their behaviour but also towards the girls as well?

I hope so too roses, but somehow I think there will be more cases like this one and the ones before, different towns but the same scenario and the girls, how do they piece together their lives again when they have had to endure such awful abuse barely out of childhood

There certainly has been a malaise in tackling this issue, one would actually say a paralysis, but I am hopeful that times are changing and all the rotten cans of worms are coming to light now.I hope they make sure that none will manage to wriggle away.

I just think shilly shallying around uncomfortable cultural truths doesn't help and perhaps this is what Sarah Champion had in mind in her reference to "floppy haired liberals" who will not accept the appalling and very racist behaviour "all white women are trash and are there to be used" that pertains to a small element of Muslim men. Thus fueling a far right mindset who will make no distinction between the decent majority and the criminal abusers.