Newcastle sex grooming

TerriBull
I saw that. It says it all in our attitude to 'not to offend'
Never mind that young girls are being mutilated, we mustn't offend sensitive abusers.

durhamjen
If the chief constable is denying what * many* prominent Muslims are saying, then yes, I am calling him a liar.

durhamjen
Where have I said that?

There is a malaise in tackling certain cultural problems and even on occasions, a deliberate effort to mislead.For example, slightly off subject, a recent campaign by Barnardos to draw attention to the fact that it's school holiday time which may present an opportunity for some girls to be taken back to be taken back to where their family emanated from for fgm, Barnardos use a white, westernised, caucasian girl on their poster .

You're calling the chief constable of Northumberland a liar, petra.

I know, but the BBC specified gangs of men of Asian origin grooming white girls and named many towns and cities in the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b090fb45
not yet available though.

Dr Taj Harvey, * Imam* of the Oxford Islamic congregation said
" Race and religion are inextricably linked to the recent spate of grooming rings in which muslim men have targeted under age white girls.

Yet another prominent person of Muslim faith speaking the truth, or would 'some' call them all liars?

Annie referred to the situation in North Wales - there have been many such instances throughout the UK over the decades, at least as far back as the 60s.

The demographics of the times means that the abusing residential workers in these homes, and their associates, were 99% white British Christians.

It's not just Newcastle, Rotherham though, is it?
It's nationwide and the authorities have been frightened to do anything about it for fear of being accused of being racist.

The BBC News at 10 last night read out a whole list of towns and cities in the UK where it has happened. Staff were sent on courses when they raised concerns.

We need to disregard any calls of 'racism' or 'anti-Muslimism' and justice must be done and seen to be done if there are any future incidents.

No excuses, just as there are no excuses for the Jimmy Savile (and others) scandal because he was a celebrity.

What has Jen said to be accused of making excuses for these men?

No one is making excuses ninny just trying to explain the subtleties.

I am not making excuses for them.

If they were white men, wouldn't people get upset if everyone said "These white Christian rapists"?

durhamjen stop making excuses for them.

From Jasmin Alibhai Brown.

"These men most of them Pakistani muslim
"The rapists are all proberbly considered very good * muslims*
"These men- and there are many of them-are filled with fear and hatred of females only understand coerced sex and are convinced that white women in particular deserve no respect and can be used with impunity.
"Sexism and racism courses through their veins.
Prison will make no difference to their sick mind and hearts, or to the many out there"

They are asking the questions.
In fact, many of the men involved were grassed on by their own families, who are not Muslim.

The reason there has not been much about it over the last year or so was because of the need for secrecy, so that there would be no possibility of the jury being corrupted by what they had seen in the news.

I am sure they are. But that does not stop them asking the important questions about why this is happening.

I was listening to Radio Newcastle all morning, and the one thing that the police were stressing was that it was not to do with the Muslim faith.
Muslims in Newcastle are just as horrified as anyone else.

From Nazir Afzal who led the Rotherham prosecution.

"There is no escaping the fact that Asian and Pakistani men are disproportionately involved in street grooming of vulnerable young girls
Our jails are filling up with Muslim prisoners and yet the crimes they are committing has become a taboo subject
When I was invited to speak at the Muslim council of Britain meeting 5 years ago, the agenda was interested only in hate crime and islamaphobia.
There was no mention of Muslim prisoners, no mention of child grooming, and no discussion of radicalisation.
I told them we couldn't just talk Muslims as victims and refused to attend unless the issue of child grooming was addressed.
It was said by many in the community "it's bad they got caught"
I was once speaking to an Asian father at a conference. His son had gone to prison for dealing crack cocaine but his anger was directed at his daughter who had * brought shame on the family by marrying a man of her choice.
If we don't act now * we are creating a ticking time bomb* and that will have a devistating consequences for policing*
Child grooming offences have * increased 5 fold in Manchester alone in the past year*
Nationally the police are becoming overwhelmed"

I started a thread on this topic in April this year at the time of the Huddersfield case when 27 Asian men were prosecuted.
Below I repeat one of my posts - sorry it's long but it's a very serious issue:

Unless we acknowledge the problem we can't solve it. Professor Jay's report - easily available online - estimates that 1,400 white children were abused in Rotherham by Asian men - but I do not believe it is a matter of race - it is a matter of culture. Britain adopted the policy of a Multicultural Society and anyone who disagreed was called racist. But some cultures do not accord with our values and/or laws - and the cultural norms in some communities badly impact on all women - not just white girls - and we should be prepared to challenge that.
Here are some extracts from the Jay Report:

"By far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims, yet throughout the entire period, councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani-heritage community to discuss how best they could jointly address the issue. Some councillors seemed to think it was a one-off problem, which they hoped would go away. Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so."

"The Deputy Council Leader from the Pakistani-heritage community was clear that he had not understood the scale of the CSE problem in Rotherham until 2013. He had advocated taking the issue 'head on' but had been overruled. He was one of the elected members who said they thought the criminal convictions in 2010 were 'a one-off, isolated case', and not an example of a more deep-rooted problem of Pakistani-heritage perpetrators targeting young white girls. This was at best naïve, and at worst ignoring a politically inconvenient truth."

"There was too much reliance by agencies on traditional community leaders such as elected members and imams as being the primary conduit of communication with the Pakistani-heritage community. The Inquiry spoke to several Pakistani-heritage women who felt disenfranchised by this and thought it was a barrier to people coming forward to talk about CSE. Others believed there was wholesale denial of the problem in the Pakistani-heritage community … and this needed to be addressed urgently, rather than 'tiptoeing' around the issue."

"Both women and men from the community voiced strong concern that there had been no direct engagement with them about CSE over the past 15 years, The Home Affairs Select Committee quoted witnesses saying that cases of Asian men grooming Asian girls did not come to light because victims 'are often alienated and ostracised by their own families and by the whole community, if they go public with allegations of abuse.' With hindsight, it is clear that women and girls in the Pakistani community in Rotherham should have been encouraged and empowered by the authorities to speak out about perpetrators and their own experiences as victims of sexual exploitation, so often hidden from sight."

These are very worrying findings - women feeling "disenfranchised" and scared to speak out. I approach this whole problem as an old-fashioned feminist and if I get called "racist" then so be it. Women's safety is more important to me than cultural sensitivities.

We must not tar all Asian men with the same brush, but we need somehow to stand against the victimisation of women - forced marriage F.G.M
and these gangs of abusers. Maybe we need to work with Muslim leaders and say that these crimes will not be tolerated. Then prosecute the wrong doers properly. After all there is the possibility of a real back lash against all Asians

Whilst I agree that child abusers come from all ethnic backgrounds it does appear that those who form "gangs" to abuse young girls are predominantly of Asian descent. On the whole white abusers tend to be loners (although I accept there are exceptions to that rule). All abusers should be tracked down and prosecuted with the same vigour no matter what their ethnicity.

It is a pity that those same lawyers who fight the state in the deportation cases couldn't turn their talent and considerable skills towards the victims of these rapists and argue FOR the deportation. It is becoming increasingly obvious that these men did know what they were doing was criminal and immoral, they wouldn't let this happen to their own wives, sisters and daughters but were perfectly happy to do it to the sisters, wives and daughters of other people, of their neighbours, of their near community. Reports indicate that not only was is widespread, it presumably was ignored or tolerated by others within their families, there is no way that this kind of behaviour,would not be noticed by family or the extended community, so to my mind, those who chose to turn a blind eye are just as guilty. I understand that perhaps some female members of the community would find it hard to stand up and protest or criticise the men's behaviour, but surely not every young man in that community in Rotherham was a rapist or child molester, surely some of them must have known what was going on even if they were not involved?

It has always happened, now we don't have those childrens homes so vunerable children areat the mercy of sex fiends on the streets and now the police are getting their act together, so I don't think faith schools can be blamed. Sex fiends find children.

As others say, no more pussyfooting about religious and cultural issues, if there is a crime, then try and prosecute.

I was very concerned to hear on Radio 4 this morning that SWs who tried to address the fact that, in some instances, it was Asian men who were committing these crimes, were sent on courses to teach them how not to be racist. Now that really is ridiculous and very very scary.

I remember being sent on such courses as a SW and thinking how utterly ridiculous they were at that time, condemning the use of words like blackboard and black coffee (yes, really - I kid you not!). I am hoping that such courses are now more balanced - but it is not balanced to assume that a SW who notes and wishes to address what is really going on is assumed to be racist and in need of correction.

It is this sort of approach that allows this to continue. There are indeed many instances of such activity by various races; but where there is a gang approach by one ethnic/cultural group, that cannot be ignored.

Something somewhere within the muslim community is fostering/hiding/tacitly encouraging an attitude that leads to abuse of girls/women and involvement in terrorist acts. We do not help the solution if we are too afraid to say that.