Newcastle sex grooming

Good post Terri in fact good posts from everyone on here.
Asian gangs are into all sorts of things, sex grooming and fraud ( often insurance fraud) and other criminal activities.

Yes, there are many other gangs too, and some of the worst are Eastern European.

"What I find unbelievable is that two of the Rotheram groomers, Pakistani nationals, who previously had a shed load of legal aid are now going to get more to fight their deportation. This is such an insult to the victims not to mention a waste of public money which could go to far more deserving cases"

Just plain wrong Terribull who or what do you blame for allowing this? Maybe Human Rights laws/lawyers who seem to totally disregard the human rights of the victims.

Annie the vast majority of abusers of children in Britain will be white British, because, White British make up the overwhelming majority of the population and I imagine correspondingly that would be the findings in any country insomuch as the highest ratio of criminal activities will be carried out by their own people. It's a sad fact that paedophiles have often gravitated to positions of trust where they are in close proximity with young people who are vulnerable and in care, look at Cyril Smith. No doubt if research was done that would have always been the case. The Victorians were notorious for their child prostitutes.

This is something different, the Asian men are disproportionately represented in this type of crime. There are all sorts of arguments that we have heard before, such as their arranged 1st cousin marriages, sometimes with a wife who is from the parent country, not speaking English. Some of those abusers will be born and raised here, so they have had to straddle two cultures and no doubt there is a disconnect with what they are taught to believe and the confines of their religion and their perceived view of the louche sexualised way of life here, possibly they grew up frustrated that they couldn't go off on an "18/30" type holiday and have unlimited sex with anything with a pulse. Possibly they think that is how all young British behave and they grew up wanting some of the freedoms that they think they are entitled to. None of this mitigates their behaviour. They must have known what they were doing was wrong. It's one thing having consensual sex with an adult without strings, why couldn't they, covertly if they needed to, have done that instead of picking on vulnerable children, plying them with drugs then threatening and terrorising them. Some of these kids were in care, not all, some came from regular homes and from what I read when The Times broke the story a while back some girls were groomed via their Pakistani peers at school and then passed on. The grooming process is insidious via flattery and gifts. They didn't see what was coming how much nous did any of us have at 12, 13, 14 kids don't see cause and effect and why would they.

What I find unbelievable is that two of the Rotheram groomers, Pakistani nationals, who previously had a shed load of legal aid are now going to get more to fight their deportation. This is such an insult to the victims not to mention a waste of public money which could go to far more deserving cases. Given that some abusers have turned up at court and practically stuck two fingers up at the victims and laughed and mocked their families it sends out a terrible message.

Should have read before posting.

children's home was not

children's homes were not.

This particular group was to do with race and culture. The
horrific crimes against children in the North Wales (and other) children's home was not. It goes without saying
equally as bad (and in many ways worse) but I don't think to do with race and cultural differences.

Exactly - that was one of the cases I was referring to - it is all the most dreadful abuse whether racist influenced or not. It all needs to be investigated if there is the slightest cause for concern with any child.

It has been going on for years - has it got worse now? That also needs to be studied.

If it was all to do with race and culture what does this mean for the young boys brutily raped in the North Wales children's homes by white British men , they were driven into England to be raped as well as well as being raped in their own beds

Yes it is a racist crime because they are specifically targeting white girls but that does not make the actions of these other groups of men any less a crime - just that in many cases you could not use the term racist as everyone is from the same broad race. What crime do we call it?

It all needs to be targeted the same as the end results are the same. It would be interesting to see if the 'racist' variety greatly outnumbers the non racist.

"On the BBC TV News there was an Asian man saying that there were some men in the Asian community who considered white girls as fair game and something they would not to their own wives and sisters etc"

Of course they do Welshwife but I am afraid I cannot agree with those who say this is nothing to do with race/religion/culture. It has everything to do with it. How come of the 17 men found guilty all 17 of them were of an Asian background? What are these people learning from their parents/mosques/peers? That white British girls are there for them to use and abuse?

This is a racist crime the same as a crime committed by a person of White British heritage towards a person of Asian British heritage would be.

On the BBC TV News there was an Asian man saying that there were some men in the Asian community who considered white girls as fair game and something they would not to their own wives and sisters etc. He said that it needs to be addressed.

This is happening to children by other groups of men too - some men who held respectable positions have recently be convicted of child sexual abuse years ago - many of the children in these cases were in care. Can we say with certainty that this sort of thing is no longer happening now? I think it would be complacent to do so.

Does anyone else besides me think that there must be something mentally wrong with people who do this sort of thing, whatever their origins? A child is there for us to nurture and love but in a protective manner not as some of these people say/think they are doing. Do you think they can ever be cured? I think it unlikely - does anyone know if castration would have any effect on their offending again?

There should definitely be no backing off from investigating any suspicions or evidence, just because of the person's race/background.

Yes accuse a person of a crime regardless of race, creed or religion do don't bring in their race, creed or religion if they are found guilty

Many years ago I read an article by Lynda Lee Potter ( remember her?) in the Daily Mail. It was, I think written at a time of race riots. She said that we will never have true equality and understanding until you are able to accuse a person of a crime irrespective of their race or creed or religion. i.e without worrying about being accused of racism. I am known as being a bit of a 'leftie' and always argue the opposite view to many people I know, but cases like this make me incandescent with rage. These men have lived here long enough to know what is acceptable behaviour, to know how the law stands on underage sex, drugs, people trafficking, they chose to disregard the law and so must face the penalties. I would also like to see prosecutions under the proceeds of crime act,( being paid for trafficking the girls, providing drugs) and the money used to provide counselling for these brave girls who went through the court ordeal, but I know that is just my fantasy.

As for the Muslim aspect: someone with more knowledge of the actual statistics may correct me but among the Asian-background community, Muslims are the majority so any misbehaviour amongst Asians is more like to be committed by Muslims. And as they are a large community they will feature in any crime statistic.

I've seen articles over the years claiming that Poles commit more motoring offences in the UK, compared to other EU nationals - if that's true I doubt it's due to them being white Roman Catholics. More likely it's because they are the biggest ethnic group in the UK from the EU and driving licences can be bought in their home country.

As far as I know there's nothing inherently in the RC Polish culture that makes them dangerous drivers.

People from other cultures tend to stick together so the criminal element amongst them will do the same and act en masse.

'lessons will be learned' huh! All that means is a very expensive inquiry headed up by a member of the elite judiciary, a few talking heads, and a room full of ring binders stuffed with paper when it is all over. As ever, a few junior, overworked social workers will be disciplined, a few more people will appear on television to tell us that we are all to blame, and then another lot of young women and girls will be picked up by another group of these men. Very harsh penalties must be handed out, the so called leaders of the communities ( have you noticed how they are ALL older men?), should be called together and informed that this behaviour is not only culturally unacceptable, it is against the law of the land in which they have chosen to live. This is not racist , this is protecting society, and giving women who are living with these pigs who abuse children the message that it is not acceptable, and maybe a way out of this repeated pattern. It is unjust to blame cultural differences for these crimes, these men have mainly, I understand, lived here for most of their lives,if not born here and so must be aware that what they were doing was wrong.

Stansgran - that's what I believe too - as I wrote above.
The muslim religion has an inbuilt attitude of the inferiority of women. Whatever colour. Including their own women.
Having said that other religious and cultural groups share that.
As for speaking out - fear of reprisals? Both from the criticised group and those of our own people who overuse the word 'racist'.

I listened to Sarah Champion MP on the radio this morning saying we needed a study to get to the bottom of why Asian men target white girls and women for sex crimes. They also had someone from the police on who insisted that it was not only Asian, but Eastern European, and some middle eastern men who were doing this so you couldn't realistically target one ethnic group. I admire Sarah Champion but I don't think a study would get us any further. The authorities know what the problem is and will continue to soft pedal until someone has the courage to say we won't pander to you because of your race and religion any longer. As for addressing the problem in schools, I doubt that parents of children in schools with a predominance of Asian pupils would allow that to happen. It should be addressed in the mosques but there is very little transparency there and I doubt if the Imams do anything but pay lip service to it. It makes me sad. I know many decent Asian families and this besmirches everything they stand for.

I can't imagine them being stripped of their UK citizenship River as they were all probably born and bred here in England. In the absence of any harsher penalty I would lock them up for a very, very long time.

We are already hearing that lessons will be learned but they never seem to be do they? How many other cases such as this are on the horizon?

Good post river walk

I've had my GC here this week so haven't been able to keep up with the facts of this case, however I can be sure that the victims will have the same backgrounds as the majority of those in Oxford, Rotherham, etc.

These girls have been abused and let down by many more groups in society, in addition to the Asian-background men, i.e. their own families, often dysfunctional; social services; police; and education authorities.

So many of us a society care not very much for these young girls, is it no wonder that they fall prey to these foul men?

If any of the men have dual nationality I'd be sympathetic to them being stripped of their UK citizenship and deported - it would send out a strong message and be a deterrent.

In the meantime I expect we'll hear that 'lessons will be learned' from the various authorities - maybe something equally as harsh as deporting could be applied to those responsible for neglecting these girls

I think you have to start from the life of the leader of this religion. He consummated the marriage to Aisha at the age of eight or nine. He was in his fifties. I gather he had about thirteen wives I'm not sure if they were all at the same time. He was monogamous with his boss's widow until she died. It helps understand the mind set if the religion condones all this. I am happy to be corrected if wrong.

Farnorth to be honest, I don't know what can be done about it, but I do think that pussyfooting about and sweeping the racial side of this abuse under the carpet does not help anyone, least of all the victims. Perhaps we need to start addressing this in schools? Although as the parent of a teacher, I know that they get tired of always having to be the answer to all of society's problems.

We need to ask ourselves what it is about all cultures that makes some men think that women and girls are to be abused, whatever their ages.
One woman a week is killed by a partner/ex partner/stranger every week in the UK.
There are groups of men, and some women, of every race, creed and culture who abuse children.. That's been the case since the beginning of time. It's unlikely this gang of abusers confine their abuse to vulnerable white girls. How many children within their own families are suffering in silence, as in every community in this country.
In America, groups are identified as say Irish/Italian/Spanish American. The majority of this latest group of convicted sex offenders seem to have been 2nd generation British Pakistani. Pakistan separated from India 70 years ago with the majority of its population being Muslim, those living in the area that became Pakistan, who weren't Muslim, tended to move into Indian areas. I'm as angry as everyone else about the organised sexual exploitation of children and vulnerable men and women by the way, not attempting to deny the issues within that particular group.
Someone mentioned the fact that one (I think the phrase was) 'odd looking' woman was also convicted. I think she was 17 or 18. I expect she was victimised by in the same way, then expected to bring younger girls in so that she wouldn't be further abused and probably drugs/alcohol would be provided. The photograph shows just how vulnerable she was. One of the three key witnesses in Rochdale was charged with similar offences and not allowed to be a witness. No easy answers to any of this are there.
School has a big part to play. It raises for me again, the issue of Faith schools. My own children went to our local C of E high school so I accept the issue of parental choice but - the growth of faith schools and the increasing separation of different faiths can't be a good thing. It feels like we're going backwards in time.

Personally I think they think that young white British girls are fair game. They are worthless trash. Unlike their own women and girls who are strictly out of bounds. They deliberately target those who do not come from good, supportive families as these will be the least likely to speak out meaning they can get away with it for longer.

This is a racist crime, there is no question about that.

Possibly they target white British girls because girls of Asian parents and Asian girls are brought up more strictly or it is racism .

these poor girls are plied with drugs and alcohol , some are even in care, does no one notice or care their young daughters are out far into the night.