Does anyone else think Trump has a point?

Yes - democratic vote by local council not just in Charlottesville but other areas e.g. new Orleans as already mentioned several times on the thread. This nazi rabble used the decision as an excuse but if it hadn't been this, they would have come up with something else at sometime no doubt. I think we probably underestimate the depth and range of these people in the Sothern states in particular. Did you read the post about 9 black people burned to death in a church in Charleston 2 years ago?

Trump is unreliable in many ways and has had to change his reported comments after advice. However there is uaually something within his comments that reveals the way he is thinking. On this occasion I think he was simply trying to get things cooled down and to stop violence. What he actually said did not help.

Thanks for the apology Oriel. I probably have as good an overview as you do about the history of the Southern states - my brother has lived in Virginia for about 25 years and my niece lives in Birmingham Alabama - both are American citizens, neither voted for Trump.

What I think we need to do is to understand and that, to me, means we need to know more than a brief summary.

Indeed not, ww.

GG Sorry meant to say that I wasn't being facetious about recommending you to use Wikipedia or Google. If I don't understand something I use both the above all the time.

There's an amazing amount of information to be accessed nowadays.

bags I think that it was done by a democratic vote.

But even if it wasn't does that constitute a reason for marchers with torches used by the KKK to chant "Jews shall not replace us"and other dreadful chants?

Something I read maintained that the supremacist rally was organised because a confederate statue was being or going to be torn down because people at the other end of the political spectrum didn't like it (I don't need to go into details about why they didn't like it, do I? It's on a par with other recent campaigns to get rid of historical statues of various people). Quite apart from the fact that tearing down statues of confederacy supporters (or anything else) isn't going to change history so I don't see the point, I can't help but wonder if the rally would not have been organised had the statue simply been ignored by those whom it upset because it reminded them of some past truth, an unpleasant truth to them, no doubt, but still a truth.

I am happy to be corrected if I have any of this wrong. I'm just relaying what I've come across.

GG I'm sorry you think my post condescending it wasn't meant to be

I'm not saying I'm a US history buff and perhaps that's the point. If I understand enough of the situation then I assume that most people would be the same since I am by no means an expert on the subject.

You said that you felt articles covering the Charlottesville protests should cover a wide-ranging history as to how the current situation came to be. What I'm saying is that the history of the US is widely known and that it is entirely reasonable for an article focussed on the Charlottesville fracas not to have a potted history or massive back story for people to understand it.

I would have joined the protest against such evil. No question.

gg I do think that everyone knows the recent black history if the USA particularly the civil rights movement etc. I'm not clear why you think that the Guardian should have made that explicit in its article.

I think that it is assuming that it's readers have a level of knowledge that helps understand the situation.

The article was not addressed to anyone else but Trump, so I was not suggesting that people on GN supported the far right agenda.

gg the anti- Semite rantings were appalling- did you not see it in the news?

There is nothing in the American constitution that prevents small armies being formed as you saw by the Neo-Nazis on that Charlottesville item. They were dressed in uniforms carrying machine guns.

I am sorry my knowledge is so inferior to your own Oriel but I rather think I will not be the only one. I do have an overall view of the history of the USA but have never studied it in depth as you obviously have.

I do know that other posters often add to my knowledge; it's one of the reasons I come on here. Usually though, they offer knowledge itself and not condescension.

GG I think the history of the United States is widely known by most people whatever country they inhabit. When writing an article about the Charlottesville protest I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that the reader would be familiar with the historic events which led to the planned removal of the statue of Robert E Lee.

There had been a very recent demonstration against the Jews. I think present day Nazis don't limit their hate to Jews alone either.

If it's historical information you seek I suggest Wikipedia or google history of the United States

sorry Charlottesville.thats what happens when you're watching Poldark at the same time as typing and reading comments pages

and an

It's and interesting view whitewave but then I don't think anyone has said on here that Racism, anti-semitism, white supremacist and Nazism -new or old- are NOT wrong. Even in the OP I said I would not want Nazis or the KKK marching in my town "I would want the organisations banned, if it were in my country".

However, this in not in my country and I was trying to understand what was happening in another country. I do think that an article that says, simply, that there is a right and a wrong side, implying that anyone who is not on their side is on the wrong side, is missing the point. What they might be better doing is explaining how it got to this point. What is the history? What was happening to the statue? (at least I now know more about that from people on here). Politically, who exactly were the people involved? What do they want and believe in? I doubt anyone on here approves of Nazism but I haven't heard that anyone is threatening Jews in this fracas (they may be but haven't heard that) so what are they saying? How could they get away with carrying guns and other weapons and marching on the town?

The assumption that we all have in depth knowledge of these things, when often even the virtue waving writers seem not have this, is a very strange view of what people are generally interested in.

Any bets on Bannons future length of service?

He's refused to say that he has confidence in Trumpty.

An excellent editorial in the Guardian this morning, which absolutely chimes with my opinion.

I paraphrase some of the article.

"DT deliberately and shockingly crossed the line that separates the acceptable and unacceptable in the conduct of an elected democratic leader in a multi-racial society.
Trump must now face the consequences of this momentous and inexcusable decision."
The article then when on to describe the last few days of statements and press conferences held by Trump, where as each day passed, Trump made it clear by his petulant and narcissistic demeanour that he was more outraged by the criticism he had received from all quarters over his assertion that the two sides were somehow morally equivalent and that "there was good on both sides" than he was by the swastikas, racist and anti- seminite chants. He saw "good" in his country's racists and neo -Nazis.

There are not "many sides" to this argument.

There is a right and wrong side

Racism, anti-semitism, white supremacist and Nazism -new or old- are WRONG.

A leader who cannot bring himself to say this clearly and unequivocally is not just clueless, he also forfeits his claim to any moral authority.

Europe must show moral clarity whilst dealing with Trump, but this is no place for special courtesies now. Trumps visit must not go ahead. The country does not want it, the Queen does not need it. We would all be better off without out it."

May needs the guts to say it

Trump has "made America hate again".

I'm sure there were "very very fine people on both sides" in those concentration camps.

The odious Trump is a political lightweight and his pronouncements are cringeworthy. The far right is as ugly and as brutal and as intolerant as the far left however.

Many political commentators have too remarked on the stupidity of trying to erase history, so Trump may have a point. Slavery was a shameful part of history and we should not in any way glorify it. It happened though and we became more enlightened as a result. We sometimes need to look back in order to move forwards in the right direction and we have to learn lessons from the past. We cannot conveniently wipe out mistakes, nor should we. Only tyrants allow us to see the world through their lens.

Trump has shown his true colours, but he has perhaps opened up a debate which we need to have.

Politicians have a way of treading on eggshells and sweeping unpalatable issues under the carpet. I am hoping this discussion regarding the evils of extreme left and right wing ideology is a stepping stone towards a more tolerant and fair society. One can hope....

Paddyann.

Hitler headed the deceptively named "National Socialist German Workers' Party".

I've just spent the last 20 minutes reading comments on an American newspaper article about Charlestown ...IS there an education system in the USA ? If there is why do so many of Trumps supporters think/believe that Hitler was a socialist /verging on communist "leftie"...I truly despair at the world .Its like a bad joke ,so many so ill informed .

Businesses are announcing that they will not deal with any of the hate groups, like the KKK etc.

Trump has been forced to disband the business council that he set up because they are all leaving like mad after Trumps refusal to condem the white supremacists.

Agree WW