Does anyone else think Trump has a point?

If you ban them they'll carry on underground and out of sight. Better to have the devil in full view, I think.

I saw another point made recently, which is that KKK types and Nazi sympathisers have become more active of late because of Antifa, some of whom have also behaved like thugs on university campuses, for instance.

Clearly Trump supports the white supremacists as many of his voters come from that section of society.

The white supremacists were there to demonstrate against the removal of a statue of slaver Robert E Lee. There was a counter-demonstration against them

Surely it's not about being 'even handed' - White supremacists, nazis, KKK must not be given the opportunity to air their vile views unchallenged.

The news report showed them (white supremacists) turning up armed with guns, shields, clubs and wearing riot-style clothing. They were clearly not there for a peaceful demonstration.

I applaud the brave people who had the courage to make a stand against them.

gg I am afraid I have to entirely disagree with you on this.

Nazis and their evil should never be tolerated. They arrived in Charlottesville looking like a small army with uniforms and guns.
They spread hatred and division wherever they go. Nothing in their ideology is either rational or acceptable.They are responsible for injury and death.

As nationalists they feel that they are superior and entitled to rule the country in which they live, regardless of other ethnicities past history or land ownership.

Undoubtedly there was defensive violence from those opposed to their views, which to my mind are all right thinking people. I would not apologise for wanting to defend the right of all people to live in peace and harmony.

Trump is wrong, practically the whole of America thinks he is wrong. I hope he rues the day he ever said what he said.

I think we already ban hate speech Baggs and I am sure that here this would be used. However, this is the USA so I am not about to tell them what to do.

I am concerned about the 'safe-space' movement on campuses too. Hate speech should be outlawed but people should be able to hear someone else's point of view.

As I almost disagree with myself I am happy to hear others views whitewave. I do believe that there is no place for violence from anyone - whatever their view - and taking statues down which are part of the history of the country will not help.

We do have banned organisations here so I wonder if they do in the USA.

Yes ww I agree with your post. There is no moral equivalence between the two sides. DT said there were 'fine' people on both sides - there is no such thing as a 'fine' white supremacists. We also have to be aware of the terrible terrible and recent legacy of the fight for integration in the South - still not achieved. It's heartening that so many others , including leading Republicsns, have come out firmly against him. No one would condone violence or law breaking on either side but on one side it would be more understandable as they were on the defensive.

Well there is the first amendment of course, but I don't think it covers all freedoms like obscenity and I suppose incitement to riot but I'm not clear and would have to look it up.

I wasn't suggesting there was a 'moral equivalence' mayreliza - far from it. I was suggesting that violence is violence wherever it comes from.

I do think people have a right to object to statues being pulled down as no 'side' should feel it owns history - it happened and I find that there are shades of Nineteen Eighty-Four in the attempts to change it.

O.M.G.

Anyone see the video on Twitter of these thugs beating up a young black man?

The taking down of statues is a legal act - the city council approved it in April ( although an appeal is pending) and several other councils have removed, relocated or are planning to remove statues. I really do think it is difficult for us in the UK to even begin to imagine what it is like being an African American in so many southern states and how they feel about the Confederacy and those connected with it.

There is a difference between attempts to change or rewrite history and deciding not to commemorate those who oppressed a whole group of people in public places through a statue.

If you're not happy, go.

If you feel as though you stick out like a sore thumb then move to somewhere where you fit in.

To take up violence to get your way across is not right, but just look at the examples.

Sadly might is always right.

The accounts I have read of people on both "sides" naturally reflect their own point of view - the fascist groups claiming that the anti-fascist groups used violence against them, and vice versa, and it is a fact that there are always people in every protest group who overstep the mark.

Most of the accounts I have read, from protesters and journalists who were present, refer to the fact that the police did very little to pre-empt or stop the violence between the groups.

I agree that on both sides there are no doubt people who go along to these things with the express intention of inciting violence and participating in it. This is, of course, completely wrong. It is also counter-productive because it loses public sympathy and support. I tend to think they don't really care about that because they are just violent individuals who use their membership of a group as a cover for their violent natures. In my view, any person that resorts to violence discredits their cause and should be arrested.

However, I think driving a car into a crowd of protesters is in a completely different league. If you have the protection of a car and so have the means to protect yourself by driving away but instead drive it into a crowd of protesters, you know you will kill or seriously injure some of them. In this scenario the man did this because he hated them for what they were and/or what they believed in. That is surely a terrorist attack. Had the same action been carried out by a black member of a left wing group, I wonder if Trump would have been more forthcoming in his condemnation of the ideology and behaviour of the group of which this young man was a member.

I was in the US in the 60's and the attitude there then was horrific and an anathema to me. It's returning again and I find it repulsive and scary - and an excuse for violence. I have no faith in Trump quelling the masses at all.

I don't agree that 'violence is violence'.

There is righteous violence against a regime based on hate... I think this is fully justified.

I do wonder about the reasons behind the supremacists actions. Roger E Lee is a huge figure in American history. I know he was on the wrong side, morally. However, I'm currently watching the excellent series about the Vikings on BBC4, and it seems that Dublin was a city at the centre of a huge slave industry when the Vikings were there; also the Roman Empire was founded using slavery (but we don't tell the Italians to destroy statues of Caesar. We look on the Vikings as rapers and pillagers, not as slave traders but they were probably more of the latter than the former. The American Civil War just happened to come at the end of all of this but those who made money out of slavery at that time seem to have taken the blame for the whole of history. Mill workers were little more than slaves but we're not pulling down every statue of everyone who made money out of exploiting them (and probably became famous,influential figures. By the way, I'm just thinking out loud here (computers shot it and am on a rubbish tablet that is difficult to write on or Google stuff). What I'm trying to say is do we not need to draw lines somewhere when it comes to historical events especially when we have learned and moved on from them (which probably means I'm contradicting myself). Probably suffering from computer withdrawal symptoms today....

Facts: the evil and greedy Slave Traders instigated millions of Africans being taken across the Atlantic. But then the English etc invaded the States initially, murdering millions of American Indians. Our ancestors caused so many of the issues that we are dealing with today, all over the world, and there is hatred and hypocrisy everywhere. It is worrying for our kids futures as evil breeds more evil. My mantra is Dionne Warwicks song " what the world needs now is love sweet love, it's the only thing that there's just too little of ". There is good and bad in every single race under the sun and its so tragic that in this day and age there is still a lack of acceptance and progression.

Your post was interesting Tegan but my view is that this is not history. Only in 2015 were 9 African Americans burned to death in a church in Charleston by a white supremacist who said his motive was to start a race war. Also after the murder at the weekend a man appeared on TV with Duke and when Duke said make America great again, his side kick said make America white again. If there were a glorification in this country of the evil mill owners and people were marching to bring back children into the mills and take away the hard eon rights of workers, maybe we'd feel differently about any statues to them. Although most of the statues I'm aware of are of those who did a lot of good eg Titus Salt. I know this is not a good analogy but I really do think the issues in the Southern states and the dreadful racism and de facto segregation are beyond our ability ( well at least mine) to fully understand

All this violence is hideous and should never be tolerated. Anyone note it normally happens in the Southern Confederate states?

What appalled me in a recent article, written by an ex-policeman, is that in such places, should a black/brown person be assaulted/killed it goes down in the books as NHI. [Guess what that stands for? No Humans Involved!!!]. If that sort of behavior is still acceptable, why not the white supremacists, Neo-Nazis, KKK and their ilk?

Their motto is "blood and soil"

Only if you are white are you entitled to this land.

This was similar to the Nazi motto of the Third Reich.

Bluebelle, by far, far the worst killer of indigenous Americans when Europeans arrived, was disease, things like smallpox and measles to which the indigenous people had no natural resistance. I'm not excusing other killings by saying that, just getting the fact out there because a lot of people don't seem to know it.

No, I don't think he has a point. I've just watched a documentary about Charlottesville this morning - a young, female reporter followed the alt-right as they prepared for the march - and found it absolutely horrifying. These Nazis - for that's what they are - believe that America should be a totally white country and they talked about ethnic cleansing. At the march they were armed with guns, knives and sub-machine guns They voted for Trump but would prefer a president who didn't give his daughter to a Jew!

As Michelle Obama said, the presidency doesn't 'change who you are, it reveals who you are', and Donald Trump revealed exactly who he is yesterday.

This started off with 'does trump have a point?'

Which point? Yesterday's or today's???