Does anyone else think Trump has a point?

No I don't think he has a point. The white supremacists are spouting hatred about a certain group in society (non whites) their aim was to incite violence, yes there is violence from both sides but from all the accounts I have read that violence was perpetrated by the alt right groups the KKK and neo I Nazi's. I can't believe that there is a President in the USA who has refused to unequivocally condemn them. The only reason he hasn't is that he has a lot of support from those groups and he is afraid of upsetting those who helped put him in power. We are living in very sad and dangerous times and I worry for my grandchildren.

I agree with the statue being removed as it represents a part of American history that is highly dishonourable and it being put on public display is, I think, an affront to black people. (I think Alidol 's analogy re a Jimmy Savile statue is a very apt one).

I also agree with the anti-fascist groups making their presence felt at the white supremacist protests. As others have said, it is important that vile doctrines such as that of the white supremacists be visibly challenged.

However, I do not think that it is right to instigateviolence as part of a protest and to see it as a valid way of challenging injustices, although I do understand people defending themselves if they are attacked. If one accepts that violence is a legitimate way to achieve one's ends, then I think that sets up a very dangerous scenario.

sandel having a statue up to Lee does not tell us the truth about the past. Moving the statue to a museum which chronicles the history of slavery, the civil rights movement etc places it in its context and does tell the truth about the past, this would include why it was moved. In general , having a statue raised is a positive gesture so seeing a statue to Lee in a public place with no context is at the very least misleading. Black people in the Southern states still see statues like this every day - many of these people will have had slave ancestors and many of them would have relatives involved ( and maybe murdered) in the fight for civil rights in the 50s and 60s. How does their experience compare in the slightest to seeing the Elgin Marbles( the ownership of which could be a debate for another thread

GracesGran - Yes. I think the 45th president is a vile character BUT re the taking down of statues etc - Do we destroy the Elgin Marbles because they are the product of a society based on warfare and slavery? What was, was. Better to know the truth about our past.

How shocking to see this on "Gransnet".

No it was my mistake Baggs I ve realised since I wrote the post that there is another BlueBelle but with a small b so it was me wrong not you I think I d better check the name change business out cos if I can confuse my own pen name others will too

Just come back to this. Sorry, BlueBelle! My mistake.

I would guess that most people on here consider themselves 'good', what do any of us do about the slavery supporting out high tech lifestyles and cheap sweat shop clothes?

The poor whites in the south, just as the poor anywhere, never did have and don't have much in the way of freedom.
I remember when Dylan mentioned that at Live Aid and got booed.

When you can come back and assure me, that everything you posess comes from totally ethical sources, I will be impressed by your 'goodness' until then, we have to consider our own culpability.

People are not automatically bad, when they disagree with your viewpoint, the people that disagree there in the USA have their own history to consider, they try to defend it.

I don't see people going to the Roman ruins and protesting about the Christians being thrown to the lions, or boycotting Morrocan and other eastern holidays because they took slaves from Cornwall. History has its place in the world. I get that people by and large do not like Trump,(although I cannot see he is much different to any of the other war mongering, sex pest, trouble makers ) but, he is right there is good and bad in every group of people.

We can't point the finger until we lead by example. What we have is often provided by slaves, or we wouldn't be able to afford it.

If you think those slave traders were worse in the days when they knew little better, and some believed they had a biblical consent to it, where do we stand now, when we do know better, and are happy to go along with it for a fancy phone?

I didn't realise there were two BlueBelle/bluebell on here I think one of needs to change the names are too alike

I believe Trump mother and father were KKK members so I think we all know exactly how that vile individual thinks
I totally disagree with you Radiocalnan how you can equate good people with the far right I can't imagine there is NOTHING good about them absolutely NOTHING Good and Far right do not go in the same sentence as for rewriting history removing a statue does not rewrite history but it may show that that part of history isn't glorified

Ok, so let's look at this another way. Just suppose there was a statue of Jimmy Saville in a kids ward at one of the hospitals where her abused patients. Would removing it erase history?

Same here, the statue is abhorrent to a group of individuals who live there. The decision has been taken to remove the statue. It won't re-write history as long as the topic is covered in schools / talked about.

Granted, this is in a country where some schools teach creationism....

The vile racism manifest in Charlottesville is characteristic of what is happening in the UK as well. Go onto the Leave Face Book page and read the triumphant remarks supporting Trump and the White supremacists.

Hang on Baggs I m BlueBelle and I haven't commented yet

If you have a mobile phone, lap top, eat chocolate, wear chap fashion clothes, you do so because slavery exists now.

It is rife even in this country.

I think a statue or two is the least of our problems.

Shout bigot at other people, it is a free world, but we are also part of the modern slavery problem.

Absolutely right Oriel

No he does not have a point. He is the President of the USA and should have the moral honesty and courage to speak against the violence and hatred expressed by the extreme right. Of course its difficult for him because he relied on their votes to gain his position. When the ex leader of the KKK praises the president's speech you know that something is badly wrong! Finally driving a car into a group of people and killing someone, where is his condemnation of that act???? How quickly he would have denounced it as an act of terrorism if the driver had been a muslim.

The "Alternate Right" is what they call themselves today. It's as though the American Civil War never really ended. The smoldering remnants of a defeated South continue to feed racism today and have given rise to new hate groups.

These hate groups only represent the reprehensible! "Alternate Right" or "Alternate Left" there can be no 'sides' to this debate! There is no justification of any sort, for someone to plow a speeding car into a crowd!

radical Removing a statue does not equate to rewriting history. As for 'good and bad people and reasons on both sides' .. Well I don't know about you, but I can't imagine that any 'good' person would hold the views expressed by the KKK, White Supremists or neo-Nazis.

Both the enslaving Nazis and Islamists think they are superior to the rest of us and we must continue to defeat them and their hateful ideology. Other groups share a sense of superiority over the rest of us. We don't defeat them by silencing them.

The Donald was elected to avoid electing Hillary. Unfortunately, those two celebs/politicos were the only choice the electoral system presented to the American people in the last election.

We are now seeing how the US constitution limits the power of the president to act without the support of the people.

All of us should continue our fight for democracy and we do that by engaging logically with people we don't like even when we may prefer to surround ourselves with people who agree with us..

BBC Article from December 2015 here - www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35161671 asking when is it right to remove a statue. On reading the points raised on this thread I immediately thought of the Bomber Harris statue here in London.

In my mind, I think the USA statue removal demonstration was seen as an opportunity for the far right to form a mob and take to the streets - check the video at the end of this article. www.irishcentral.com/opinion/niallodowd/fascist-steve-bannon-donld-trump-fire-him?utm_campaign=Best+of+IrishCentral+-+2017-08-16&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Mailjet

Freedom of speech is to be applauded. When it's intention is to promote hate while dressed in combatant clothing and holding guns - that's terror.

Donald Trump is a dangerous man, I have many American friends (none of whom, it would appear voted for DT) and they are very, very angry.

Of course he is right. removing or rewriting history is the way that extremist groups operate, Hitler, ISIS, however dark history is, we need to remember and learn from it.

What next burning books?

We can only guess at the motivation of the people who were there but Trump, is correct in thinking that there are good and bad people and reasons on both sides.

Criminal damage is also an issue, here do we draw the line.

We have a similar hot topic in Bristol, where a well known hall is having its name changed, as the person it was funded by was a slave owner. I think it is ridiculous to ignore the past heritage which is testament to the slaves and all they endured, as much as to anyone who may have been part of that grizzly business.

There are two things here, one is the violence ( not acceptable from anybody) and the other, the taking down of a statue.
I expect that many men of the time were slave owners.....we will never know about Donald Trump. It's amazing that he became POTUS for a start.

I have no idea how they reached their decision so can't comment. Other councils have already done this without the white backlash we saw at the weekend . I don't think those thugs saw removing the statue as an annoyance - they see the existence of black peope as a stain and affront to the their very existence. T hey only feel strongly about their heritage I'd guess because it is an expression of their utterly vile beliefs and gives what they believe is legitimacy to their views and as ww said, what about the black heritage?

I have recently looked into Robert E Lee's history and believe me, his family recognised that slavery was wrong - his FIL agreed with Lee that his slaves were to be freed within 5 years (they had a tobacco plantation which was almost bankrupt) but due to the Civil War things went wrong. Do you seriously think that the Donald wouldn't have been the first slave owner if he'd been around then? The man is a horror and the sooner they find a way to remove him from power, the better.

Under no circumstances can one justify their actions - heritage or not.

So southern heritage ok for whites - what about the blacks? What heritage are they allowed to defend?