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Jews and racism

(445 Posts)
Anniebach Sun 20-Aug-17 13:19:35

In the news this morning - one in three Jews are considering leaving the U.k because of racism.

83% believe the Labour Party are not doing enough to support them

trisher Tue 22-Aug-17 21:08:17

No they aren't lemongrove I am not even advocating anti-Zionism -which is incidentally directly related to Judaism and therefore anti-semitic.

MaizieD Tue 22-Aug-17 21:08:07

But you have followed developments closely, haven't you, Ab, as an LP member? Have you no examples of what you deplore (apart from Corbyn's 'friendship' with Hamas)

nigglynellie Tue 22-Aug-17 21:05:53

Hammas commit atrocities too paddyanne. Constantly reiterating the desire to annihilate a nation and exterminate its people is hardly the act of a government wishing to live peacefully with its neighbour!

MaizieD Tue 22-Aug-17 21:05:31

Well, that's one theory, lemongrove, but I'm not sure that I'd believe that the whole party has turned anti-semitic just because of the anti-Zionist views of some of its leaders. Their last leader was of Jewish descent; was it happening under his leadership? Is it possible to 'turn' a whole party in 2 years?

Anniebach Tue 22-Aug-17 21:01:10

Maisie, I am a Christian so never personally experience anti semitism

lemongrove Tue 22-Aug-17 20:56:41

I think it is, MaizieD and those people within the Labour Party hierarchy are equating anti-Zionism with Jewish people generally, and therefore spreading anti-Semitism.

MaizieD Tue 22-Aug-17 20:56:37

I would add that I see anti-semitism as a racist issue, but, like paddyann, I see anti-Zionism as something distinctly different.

MaizieD Tue 22-Aug-17 20:53:24

I am trying to find out what form the 'anti-semitism' in the Labour Party takes.

Iam64 has described some forms that anti-semitism can take but the actions she described cannot be specifically ascribed to the Labour Party. That's why I asked if anti-Zionism is being equated with anti-semitism.

Given that anti-semitism does, shamefully, exist in the general population I wouldn't be surprised to find that some LP members are anti-semitic, but I don't understand why it is viewed as being systemic solely within the LP when people with similar views could equally exist within all the other parties.

What is marking the LP out as having a specific and serious problem? Is it anti-Zionism?

Do you, Ab, have any specific examples which might help me to understand?

Chewbacca Tue 22-Aug-17 20:52:46

This thread was only started to attack the Labour party " Good grief, get over yourselves! Perhaps it's worth considering that if the Labour party had stepped up to the plate and made its condemnation of antisemitism perfectly clear, instead of using weasel words to fudge their way around supporting hamas, there would be no need for you to be so defensive. And as for brexit being responsible for antisemitism.... is there anything that you don't blame brexit for? Racism and antisemitism has gone on for years, long before brexit was ever thought of. But what an own goal for the labour party who missed the opportunity to outright condemn antisemitism as vociferously and loudly as it has condemned racism. Instead all your left with is blaming brexit.

durhamjen Tue 22-Aug-17 20:50:07

www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/ae-elliott/assemble-ye-trolls-rise-of-online-hate-speech

lemongrove Tue 22-Aug-17 20:45:50

trisher your posts are incorrigible!

lemongrove Tue 22-Aug-17 20:45:00

And there it is again! grin

trisher Tue 22-Aug-17 20:43:47

Possibly 83% believe the Labour Party is not doing enough to support them because the LP doesn't take part in demonstrations against far right groups.

lemongrove Tue 22-Aug-17 20:43:33

If this were a discussion about the Conservative Party I wouldn't expect to be hearing about other things/people/Parties.
In fact, this over defensiveness of the Labour Party is exactly the stance of the Labour Party Leadership themselves regarding accusations of anti-semitism.

lemongrove Tue 22-Aug-17 20:39:58

I agree, and some have turned things into a rant about the right/ far right when it is a discussion of the Labour Party and their lacklustre response to accusations of anti-semitism.
I wonder why??

Anniebach Tue 22-Aug-17 20:27:55

This thread was started not to attack the Labour Party but in the hope there would be a discussion as to why 83% felt let down by the party. But as usual the far left go on the defensive and divert any discussion away from any criticism the voter makes against the party,

Primrose65 Tue 22-Aug-17 20:06:12

I think the Labour Party has a responsibility to allow the conversation about anti Semitism to happen, so that it's able to attract voters from and is able to represent that section of a community.

paddyann Tue 22-Aug-17 20:05:15

theres a huge difference between anti ZIONISM and anti semitism..I'm definately against some of the policies and attitudes of the Israeli government/state.I am NOT anti semitic..in any way ,I do find the treatment of the Palestinian people abhorrent though...especially given the Jewish peoples were themselves treated so badly The world of course turns a blind eye to this as it does to any ill treatment of people who have nothing of any worth...ie.no oil etc .Shame on us all for standing by and letting these atrocities take place

Bubbe Tue 22-Aug-17 19:52:21

From higher up this thread I want to say I really do appreciate the empathy and understanding expressed by a number of GNetters. Thank you for your supportive words.

Ilovecheese Tue 22-Aug-17 19:45:12

And I do feel that all the discussion about anti-semitism in the Labour Party is in fact a diversion, distracting us from the growth of right wing extremism. "
I agree, Trisher.
I agree too, but then this thread was only started in order to criticise the Labout party.

Eloethan Tue 22-Aug-17 19:33:54

Unfortunately, a lot of people are being abused and assaulted, not just Jewish people. The BBC reported in October last year that these sorts of crimes had risen by 41% following the EU referendum:

"There have been reports of Muslim women being verbally abused and spat on, said Ash Siddique, secretary of the Al-Madina Mosque in Barking, east London.

".... strong anecdotal evidence supports the view that there was also a genuine rise in crimes targeted at ethnic minorities and foreign nationals: the Brexit vote appeared to unleash something in people - they felt they had a licence to attack Polish migrants and insult Muslims.

"Separately, one of the most striking features of the annual figures is a 44% rise in hate crimes directed at people with disabilities; the numbers have doubled in four years."

So, disabled people are also the target of vile abuse and vicious attacks and yet anti-semitism is being presented as something separate from other forms of discrimination perpetrated against a multitude of different groups and, in my view, is being used to try and shut down discussion about, and disagreement with, the policies of the Israeli government.

TriciaF Tue 22-Aug-17 19:27:36

"It's almost as if a certain type of person in some way 'needs' some other 'out' group to hate."
That's what I think, Baggs.

TriciaF Tue 22-Aug-17 19:23:45

"And I do feel that all the discussion about anti-semitism in the Labour Party is in fact a diversion, distracting us from the growth of right wing extremism. "
I agree, Trisher.

Baggs Tue 22-Aug-17 19:19:33

I don't know. I don't think I'll ever understand it. It's said that the Jews killed Christ and that's why Christians hate Jews. Christ was a Jew too so...

Nope, I'll never understand pig ignorant prejudice. It's almost as if a certain type of person in some way 'needs' some other 'out' group to hate.

Lillie Tue 22-Aug-17 19:18:23

X post Baggs but agree GillT57 was talking about taking people at face value.