Jews and racism

So that would imply that the Jewish religion and lifestyle that attract hatred and not the actual people. I come back to the point that is it not their Jewishness which is targeted, or is that just historical?

One reason I'm against religious schools is that they can identify children as [insert religion of your choice]. For instance, I and my siblings were sent to Catholic schools. Our uniforms told people that we were Catholic or at least at a Catholic school. Now, why would anyone need to know that?

While the Nazi method of literally labelling Jews is gross, what gill said about not knowing someone is Jewish unless they told you is true.

I had an Equadorean friend in Oxford. He was not the typical colouring (skin, hair, features, etc) of either descendents of Spanish conquerors or of indigenous South American people. I never said anything about this but wondered what his ancestry was, as you do out of curiosity. One day he told me that his father was of "Spanish Catholic" heritage and his mother "German Jew". I said, "Oh" and nodded as it kind of explained that part of his appearance that seemed north European.
His reaction was: "Is that all?"
Er, yes.
Seems he often got remarks he'd rather not have heard when people heard about the Jewish bit.

The persecution I'm aware of involves swastikas painted on synagogues, Jewish gravestones and graveyards wrecked, children at jewish schools being bullied, having abuse hurled at them.
The point about Jewish people not being easily identified unless they're "very orthodox" made by blood run cold. Of course, the Nazi's found a way of identifying whether men were Jewish didn't they.

how is the persecution manifesting itself?

Like GillT57 I'm wondering this.

Is it that anti-Zionism is now being unequivocally equated with anti-semitism?

well my point exactly Lillie. I know a Greenberg who is not Jewish, and several Whites and Golds who are not Jewish despite having what are supposedly Jewish names.

GillT57 ... the name sometimes gives it away, mine does, but then none of us walk round with name badges so maybe that's irrelevant too.

I echo nigglynellie's post and feelings bubbe. She has expressed exactly what I think.

The point I was making was that if non Orthodox Jewish people are not 'obvious' so to speak, how is the persecution manifesting itself? It is not going to be like the ghastly incidents of people screaming in the face of Muslim women who are wearing the Hijab. Why would my Jewish neighbour feel threatened when she pops to the Co-op?

A basic question. Other than when people are entering a synagogue, how would you know they are Jewish, unless they are very orthodox of course? My daughter was unaware that one of her schoolfriends was Jewish until she was invited to her Bat Mitzvah. When she ate here, she said she was vegetarian which presumably avoided any difficulty with dietary laws. Just curious as to how anyone knows their neighbours are Jewish unless they tell them? Other than in Orthodox communities, there are no clothing details to identify religion, unlike with Muslim neighbours perhaps.

I have lived in the North East for over 40 years and I have never seen such dreadful scenes as some of those in the city centre lately. I don't think most Geordies are either racist or anti-semitic but there is now a group of extreme right wingers who are very vocal. It is very uncomfortable to hear them shouting at the crowds of multi national shoppers. It isn't every week, but when it happens it is horrible.
The Gateshead community has always been treated with consideration and its privacy respected. I do worry that this could change. And I do feel that all the discussion about anti-semitism in the Labour Party is in fact a diversion, distracting us from the growth of right wing extremism. Instead of worrying over the finer points of definitions some real condemnation of the messages being promoted by these organisations would help. And when there was a march recently it was the members of left wing organisations who turned up to challenge the racists.

We still are, TriciaF. I've lived in the area for most of my life and personally have never heard of anyone who doesn't accept Jews are part of our area and respects their beliefs and customs. May it always be so.

Bubbe - welcome to the discussion.
I don't know where you live, but please don't be too scared about the current racism (due to Brexit, I think.)
As I've mentioned before, we lived for 10 years in the Gateshead orthodox community. Mostly not Chassidic like some parts of London, but obviously Jews.
Being born in the NE I was glad to see that on the whole the local Geordies were tolerant and accepting. And still are from what I've heard.
We left only because we sought a less rigid form of Judaism. After our lives as gentiles for 40+ years.

Calling .hamas friends must have caused damage Trisher , and this is not about .palastine it's about the Labour Party

It's a pity that Hammas can't altered its avowed intention to demolish the state of Israel, murder all its citizens and all Jews world wide, it could help!!!!. Having a government with murderous intentions living next door would make any state a little anxious I'd have thought! I would also have thought that Egypt would have been severely censored y the UN and others and Egyptians vilified for only opening its border with Gaza twice a week! What's wrong with everyday like any other country?! No doubt there is a good and approved reason! Why doesn't the UN severely criticise other trading countries over their lamentable human rights records, why is it only Israel?!

Then let's agree that criticism of Israel is not anti-semetic as long as what it is seeking is proper human rights for all people and does not blame the policies and the restrictions placed on Palestinians on all Jews.

Then Trisha , let's start with our own party before we sort out Palastine, Israel and the U.N.

It isn't anti-semetic to want proper human rights for Palestinians. Many Jews dislike the regime in Israel. If Bubbe would like to say what he or she finds to be anti-semitic on this thread I will undoubtedly apologise for anything said. But I maintain that people who believe in human rights wholeheartedly believe in them for all sections of humanity from the oldest to the youngest, regardless of faith, colour or national origin and some of the people who post ideas on here certainly exhibit no such beliefs.

I too am very sorry that you feel as you do Bubbe, but regretfully understand it. Perhaps it is good that this thread has opened your eyes to what is a deeply unpleasant streak of anti semitism running through this country in certain quarters. At least you are under no illusions and can seek safety where you can.

Rosyapple189 Thank you for the link I read it with interest and then compared some of the figures with the WHO (who I am sure you will agree have no reason to be partisan in this matter) and found great discrepancies. One of these is of course because the figures you presented for medical treatment include anyone accompanying a patient, which makes the amount of medical help seem larger. I also prefer to believe the WHO when it regards the medical situation in Gaza

WHO appeals for US$ 4.5 million for Gaza health response, mobilizes US$ 360 000 in emergency funds

17 July 2017 – Electricity cuts and continued shortages of medicines and medical supplies in the Gaza Strip are severely restricting the access of 2 million people to critical medical care, WHO has warned. At least 30 hospitals, 70 primary health care centres and a blood blank are at risk of full or partial closure due to continued power outages and not enough fuel or spare parts for back-up generators.

If you would like to read more
www.who.int/hac/crises/international/wbgs/en/

I wonder what percentage of the Labour Party feel that people in Gaza deserve proper human rights?

lemongrass next time there is a BNP or English Defence League meeting in Newcastle why not come and hear what they really say? Then you will know what right wing racism is.

It's a diversion lemongrass , as a Labour Party member I am ashamed that 83% of Jews questioned felt as they did about the party.

I hope so too Bubbe and what a pity that you should need to though.

I am a British born Jew. My surviving ancestors had escaped from a profoundly hostile Europe. Am now 65 but when 16 I made the decision (in discussion with my friends) to integrate but not assimilate and this I believe is what I've managed. I have been blessed with wonderful friendships, colleagues and good neighbours of many faiths and ethnicities.

Although a member of a synagogue I haven't been in years. But reading this thread has chilled me to the bones and I am now resolved to form closer day-to-day ties with the Jewish community. I hope it will help me feel safer.

trisher forget all these 'far right' fairytales , it's the Labour Party that is being talked about , left wing anti-semitism not far right.
Also allow others who have lived there for a long time like Rosyapple their say without constant arguements from you because you imagine that you know better.
British Jews are white and British durhamjen and you wouldn't know who was and who wasn't, should you ever want to.

Trisha, there are gaps in your ignorance. To help you out, here's just one of the reports about Israel's aid to Gaza. There are so many more, it's extremely well documented. www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-humanitarian-aid-to-the-gaza-strip. As you see, tons of essentials, every day. I may remind you too, that Israel is a democracy with a very free press and media, representing all points of view. It's also so small that any attempt at 'propaganda' would go round in no time. Friends of mine have, for instance, family members who work on these humanitarian trucks. You might note, too, they go in every day. Not twice a month as in Egypt's case. There are, too Gazan workers who enter Israel for work every day. I'm afraid it's you who is the one being fed propaganda.

lam64 and lemongrove - I've heard that kind of thing from Arabs/Muslims too.
Eldest son lives in Kuwait and I've visited there twice. They have a non-religious Arab friend - I had an interesting discussion with him once about the similarities and differences - both nations are semitic, their languages are alike.
The most striking thing he told me was in the story of Abraham told by God to sacrifice his 1st born son their version of the OT (which he read at school) it was Ishmael who was offered, not Isaac.
So that's why they claim the Holy Land as theirs.