The Truth Behind Traingate

Devon girl was quite right. We read many comments on here which are detached from the source that made them up and presented as facts. Not very clever - and not to be taken very seriously.

An opinion not based on fact is prejudice. I am inclined to believe that someone presenting an opinion as if it were a fact is doing so to put forward a specious argument. If there is a source why not reference it; if it just an opinion why not say so?

I feel we also have the fallacy of relevance - a lot of that on this thread. Perhaps you would like to give us your opinion about that POGS.

As you could teach a robot not to put a tomato in fruit salad

That's massively more complex than you think gg Much easier to teach a 'robot' to drive a train!

Are there any global conglomerates that do not practice tax avoidance? Is Branson more or less avoidant that others?

I feel we also have the fallacy of relevance - a lot of that on this thread

You're joking, right? This is an internet forum aimed at older people.

We are all just writing our opinions all the time. Most of us don't feel a need to try and use an appeal to intellectual authority to suppress or belittle the equal and valid opinions of others.

I'll give you some facts which are not opinions

The police confirm significant investigation into alleged criminal activities on the part of the Conservative Party.

That is a fact.

The following is an opinion

Bet the Tories wish that they only had the myth and gossip of last years so called traingate to worry about.

"Are there any global conglomerates that do not practice tax avoidance? Is Branson more or less avoidant that others?"

Sorry, primrose, is that what matters to you?
Surely none of them should practise tax fraud.
Have you actually read what Branson did when he just owned Virgin Records? Do you think it just a childish prank? He appeared to. He still dfoes appear to think that not paying tax is a game, but he's got better at it.
Do you really think it acceptable that people like Branson should take money out of the NHS simply because others do?

I like that fact, whitewave.

Primrose65 of course there are other companies practising Tax avoidance. The point about this is, the company in question released information about a politician that was at best misleading and at worst outright lies. The fact that the politician in question would bring in measures that would severely limit if not completely end that company's ability to fleece the tax payer can't be ignored. This is big-business trying to remove or limit your democratic choices and the fact that you don't recognise that is very worrying.

Well jen you're making an assumption that if they paid more tax, that money would be spent on the NHS.
Be careful, or you'll be in trouble with the logical thinking police.

If you are writing what is simply an opinion - say so. Simples The words, 'I think' 'I have understood' 'I remember reading' 'it has been my experience' or even 'I would guess that' are all words known to 'older people' Primrose and not a big step from "... the whole bizzare stunt was a bit of a fantasy...", "Stunts will always." or "Traingate was a publicity stunt".

Other boards are chat boards but, if you choose to debate politics as happens on a 'Politics' board I think it is not unreasonable to ask for some nod to reality. Asking you to make it clear you are offering an opinion is not setting that bar very high.

trisher, I cannot see how anything that happened in traingate, whatever the 'truth' or 'facts' are, have limited or removed my democratic choice.
Enlighten me.

If all tax was paid right amount at the right time we would all at current spending be paying an enormous amount less.

But those who have been salaried paye all their life will have both paid proportionately more and everything that is due.

They are the folk on whom the government and NHS, education etc etc can rely upon.

Directors, owners of businesses pay proportionately less as well as receiving various perks. They will avoid as much tax as possible.

Primrose, Branson is taking money OUT of the NHS. Obviously if he stops doing that, it stays IN the NHS.
That's logical, surely.

If you want an example of fallacy of relevance Primrose, "Are there any global conglomerates that do not practice tax avoidance?" is one.

I am sure you can work out why. I trust in the level of intelligence and ability of 'older people' and do not see a need to put them down.

Ok you have a leader of the opposition who is becoming more and more popular, if you can discredit him- prove him a liar and cut that support you lessen his chances of ever coming to power. It's simply influencing democracy which means your choices are restricted, because once an organisation can step in and discredit one person they will do it again and again and others will follow. Virgin have carefully calculated what they did and the time they took to release the actual footage and they did so only because they had to shows they were fully aware of what they were doing.

"to suppress or belittle the equal and valid opinions of others."

How interesting that this is your aim on Politics threads Primrose. Very unfriendly

It's simply influencing democracy which means your choices are restricted,
But how have my choices been restricted? By discrediting liars? I can't see how that limits or removes democratic choice in the UK.

No Trisher I mean 2016/2017

If all tax was paid right amount at the right time we would all at current spending be paying an enormous amount less.

I don't think so ww
Tax avoidance in the UK in 2014-15 was £2.2 billion
Tax revenue for this year is estimated at £744.2 billion
Unless you think 0.3% less is 'enormous'

I think it is not unreasonable to ask for some nod to reality. Asking you to make it clear you are offering an opinion is not setting that bar very high.

He didn't lie Primrose65 the fact that you still believe the Virgin lies says more about you than anything else.

"The companies analysed by the research are: Care UK, Circle, General Healthcare Group, HCA, Bio Products Laboratory Holdings, Ramsay Healthcare, Spire Healthcare, The Practice, Optum (United Health) and Virgin Care.
Only two of the 10 companies (HCA and Ramsay) pay any significant tax in the UK because most of the others have structures that involve the payment of significant interest, much of it to offshore companies.
However, all ten companies have links to offshore tax havens, including the Channel Islands, British Virgin Islands and Luxembourg, and all but one employ extremely complex corporate structures to potentially lower their tax bill."

From unite research.

Annie the tax year finishes in April, so it is unlikely that anyone will have yet calculated how much Virgin have withheld this year. I gave you 2015. I would have thought with your business interests in property you would be aware of how tax years work. I'll look for April 2016-April 2017 but it may not be publicly available yet. (His lawyers are still working out what he can get any with!)

Where did you get your figures * primrose* as I agree some nod to reality would be useful

trisher - You said it, not me! I was referring to your explanation.

if you can discredit him- prove him a liar and cut that support you lessen his chances of ever coming to power. It's simply influencing democracy which means your choices are restricted

trisher there will be no tax figures for the year you are looking at

HMRC ww