Universal Credits- a new nightmare

Thanks Biker for your personal experience. My experience is limited to the many people I tried to support when working, members of my family and close friends who have to sign on. My experience mirrors yours, a small number of people exploit the benefits system but the vast majority of long term claimants have complex needs, health and/or social needs that make securing and maintaining regular employment that pays enough to cover the rent, heating and food is nigh on impossible.

Margs - once you start calling people nazis you've lost the argument. I know people who work or have worked in DWP and nazis they are certainly not.
Of course the majority of claimants are genuine and in need but there are also people defrauding the system - £1.3 billion fraudulent claims in 2016.
And as for tax credits - unless you've only worked in well paid jobs, you will have come across single parents doing their 16 hours a week who won't do overtime or extras because "I'll lose my benefits" - where did that sense of entitlement come from?

Perhaps it comes from wanting to be the best parent they can be, and thinking that time spent with family is time well spent. I don't begrudge single parents my taxes.

Nor me. I'm on minimum wage, and have no objections at all. In fact, I'm rather proud that my money goes towards supporting people who are in need.

On the subject of tax credits, its not only lone single parents that can claim ...anyone over 60 that live on their own and work at least 16 hours a week can claim "working tax credits" this of course isn't publicized, you have to do a bit of delving.

I think prior to being 60 you had to work 30 hours a week.But over 60 it drops to 16...Im sure not a lot of people know this.

I've never understood working tax credits.
It seems to me a way of allowing employers to pay less to employees.

Yes dj that's certainly what's happened - tax credits allow employers to pay minimum wages.

Yep - tax credits - proof that the market really works

i understand that for a family of four the monetary difference between working in a full time minimum wage job and claiming the tax credits and other benefits etc and not working ( because of redundancy or a temp contract ending) and receiving the benefits then available is £70 a week less in total. Payments such as housing benefit and Council Tax are increased but tax credits etc decrease as well of course as wages lost. £280 a month - a lot of money to a family.

Tax credits are not proof that the market works - they interfere in the market and prove that such careless interference distorts the market.

Have to agree Jen.

Welshwife - it's not just a lot of money to the family but the costs to the state of all the changes of the errors, etc. must be huge. What a mess.

dbDB77 I think the comment about how 'the system works' was an ironic statement.

How to tax credits interfere with the market? Do you think employers would pay higher wages if they didn't exist?

Sorry - I was being ironic. If the free market worked, which it doesn't, it wouldn't be distorted by wages being subsidised because the state would not interfere with wage levels which would be 'set' through market forces

Person 60 yrs and over working 16 hours gets x amount of tax credits.

Person 60 yrs and over working "more" than 16 hours gets "less" tax credits .

The more hours you work the less tax credits you rec.

The tax credits are adjusted each June, if you have earned more that you estimated (you estimate what your going to earn in the coming year) then they are adjusted either way.

Interesting, bikergran. So would it be better if your employer paid you £1 an hour more?

Interesting - I understood from a (younger) neighbour that the more hours she worked the more tax credits she received - there were bands of credit depending on hours worked - 16-24 and 30. Has it changed or was it always different for older people.

It must have only become applicable to older people when the pension ages changed.

"The United Nations’ Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities recently reported that this Government’s policies were leading to a ‘human catastrophe’. Increasingly, sick and disabled people are facing poverty and isolation. As my Disability Equality Roadshow revealed, many feel like prisoners in their own homes; with dwindling social security support, too many are dying early, and even taking their own lives.

As we promised in our Manifesto with and for disabled people, Labour will deliver on the rights of disabled people, enshrining the UN Convention into UK law.

Conference, a Labour Government will transform our social security system from one that demonises, to one that is supportive and enabling. Like the NHS, it should be there for any one of us in our time of need, providing dignity and security for all."

From Debbie Abrahams today at the Labour conference.
They'd better hurry up and get voted in, then.

Did anyone watch the documentary on BBC1 last night after the 10pm news ? (BBC Wales) - two families - one in Dagenham and the other in the North East I think - and the effects of becoming homeless and living in temporary accommodation.

Bikergran I thought that RTI (Real Time Information) payroll, which is, I beleive, compulsory now, was set up to tie in tax credits with earnings. In my small business, my staff were all part time which was what they wanted ( school hours, term time) and therefore some, with families were paid tax credits. Before I implemented RTI, some of them faced large bills at the end of the year for overpaid tax credits if they had worked more hours than they were 'supposed to' i.e by helping me out, covering for sick colleagues etc, which was very unfair. After RTI, this was no longer the case, and tax credits were, I think, adjusted to take account of real wages paid, as long as they worked the minimum.

Yes it is very difficult trying to get job which is why I ended up going self employed because I actually could not get a job, probably due to my age

Like I said it is not a good place for anyone to be having to rely on benefits but if you are genuine then you deserve every penny because that's why you were paying your taxes, having said that it is very hard getting by on benefits, my cousin had to do that for nearly two years til she aswell went self employed.

Bit of an "about turn" on your previous comment serkeen
We have a guy that has been on 'the dole' for over two years!! so why has he not found a job in all of this time, he has had loads of help in a grant for new clothing help with housing just loads of help but still no job
So it is OK for your cousin to "get by on benefits" for nearly two years, but not this man?
Or did you sense that your views were in a minority along with those of quiz queen

dj I think if workers were paid an extra £1 an hour, then at the re calculation In June would take into consideration what you had actually earned and if you had earned more than what you initially calculated then then tax credits would be reduced accordingly.

If I'm right it goes more on what you earned in the last year rather than how many hours you worked (although of course you do have to work the minimum hours stated).

GillT sorry I'm not familiar with how TC works with families with children etc. I only know how its applied to over 60s and working 16 hours. Yes I too have heard stories about TC having to be paid back because of over payment.

The example I have is a friend moved into work, managed to get 16 hours contract and claimed TC the first year.

Then when TC renewal was sorted the TC reduced £30 a month because they had earned more than they calculated they would earn that first year if that makes sense.

I'm not familiar with TC. so just going off example.

Yes, bikergran, not sure how it would work, but at least it would make the employers pay more for their workers, and there would be more tax left in the pot to share out.