Why are we leaving?

You don't get it do you???? We just don't want it! ck33

If you do! You know what to do!

You elect your MEPs...(Nigel is one of them!). They have as much a say in what the "unelected idiots" are deciding as you have with your (unelected) PM.

ck33 "the UK seemed to consider federalism as the ultimate evil"

Probably because it is the ultimate evil. Google the Coudenhove Kalergi Plan.

Try checking pre 1900 when all the leaders that ran what is now Germany wanted a united Europe under Germany of course. Then look at the November 1944 meeting at the Red House in Strasbourg where German leaders realising they were losing planned with their industrialists what they were going to do in Europe after the end of the war. Then tell me they didn't want a united Europe.

ck33 The British are very good at cooperation but not very good at being ruled by unelected idiots in Brussels.

I also feel that the UK, at the moment is not ready for Europe....(will it ever be ?). It has a tradition of "leadership" and competitiveness and does not do cooperation very well. The British are always comparing itself to the rest of the world and often inclined to believe stereotypes. You only to observe how often politicians in the UK use the phrase "best in the world" as being the only goal.
Being "good" is seen as "not good enough". Although the UK is a collection of nations, it seems to consider federalism as the ultimate evil....
The EU "migrants" (as we are now called...) are working hard in the NHS, in the building industries and also in education (as teachers or students in higher education, research etc...) to make this country as Great as it can be. Their motivation is needed by this country and I fear that it will find it impossible to recover after this.

Thankyou Mamie for a sensible contribution to the thread. What's the point in any of us harking in about the past, we need to try to (at least) think about the future instead of shrugging our shoulders and saying, "who knows?".

The future of being in the EU looks as negative as it is now but getting worse. Do remainers think all of a sudden because we stay in things will get better? The status quo is not good enough and we have ended up with politicians that hide and work for the EU and their own self interest. Something had to give. We now have our own destiny in our hands. Already the government are looking at things that need doing which they wouldn't have before. Such as educating our own children to do the jobs we need instead taking cheap shortcut. No cost of training.

Google the Coudenhove Kalergi Plan if you really want to know what EU is about. It is well on its way now!

It is true, Day6 that nobody can predict the future, but it is possible to make a reasoned judgement based on the available evidence. There is a wealth of evidence that tells us that Brexit is an extremely risky affair, with huge dangers ahead for trade, business industry and the economic wellbeing of the UK.
I don't think anyone would buy a house that they could not afford based on the fact that they could not predict the future. That would be feckless in the extreme, would it not?
I am always struck on these threads that people who support Brexit seem to be stuck in the argument of why they voted to leave the EU. Nobody seems prepared to talk about the future, about the virtues and disadvantages of WTO/EFTA /EEA, for example. Why is that?
How much economic pain are people prepared to accept for themselves and their children? How many price rises in basic commodities, how many redundancies, how many nurses lost to the NHS?
What are the practical strategies that will rebuild the economy?

* ck33 - "The EU27 understand it and that is why they (or most of them) are sticking with it warts and all. *

Another sweeping generalisation.

You discount the people on the street, the ones who live with the decisions made by the gravy-train bureaucrats, the ones, thousands of them, unanswerable to the ordinary mortal.

How many citizens of the UK (or citizens of the counties which are part of the EU ) can tell you the make up and structure of UK bureaucracy, committees and parliaments?

It's an almighty labyrinth of layer upon layer of civil servants doing gawd only knows what....and representing 28 countries. Which interests take priority? Personally I don't really give two hoots about Slovakian, Slovenian or Latvian internal/European affairs unless they affect us. That's not selfish - that's about there not being enough hours in the day.

How do such countries come to our aid? Anyone know how those 'comrades' assist us or are beneficial to us? It won't be financially, that's for sure.

It's the not knowing - at so many levels -which perturbs me and so many others, especially when we contribute so much to this institution.

We are all aware of the rise and rise of fascist groups throughout EU countries. Look at the German elections last week. That nationalism happens at street level because of dissatisfaction on the streets...amongst those who feel they have no voice. It happened in the USA.

Greece, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Poland, France...the big players are affected. Who knows what is happening in the Czech republic or Lithuania?

Do not try to pretend all is well in EU countries at grassroots levels when it patently is not.

Of course it will last, I can't imagine that such a closely woven continent or group of 27 countries will break apart.
We have all invested too much in the EU and after the UK has left, life will go on for us over here and we will continue to enjoy a decent standard of living with good medical care, and our children and grand children can travel where they want and our daughters (and sons) enjoy a decent maternity leave.
I hope all the time that Brexit will not go through but have little hope and the dreams of the 'Leave Gnetters' and their pie in the sky reckoning does not reassure me

Sarahhelenwhitney no actually we weren't "doing very nicely" before the EU we were the sick man of Europe we had the pound tied to the dollar because it was in such bad shape,and as for "great" Britain thats only the name of the island NOT the state the country was in....some folk are delusional .

Along with many others in this country I didn't sign up to a federal Europe. Nowhere in the maastricht treaty did it say so! I signed up to an "economic relationship" nothing more, so that is why I and many others are leaving. Put it in perspective, Europe needs the UK more than we need it. The German car industry in particular. I am a believer in let's wait and see. No-one is an expert in this field, as it has never been done before!

Wide-ranging and diverse viewpoints given above make this an excellent thread.

As the initial EU model has changed so much since its initial conception, especially Junker's ideas of increased federalism, EU Army and tax systems, I feel this is not for us!

The UK consists of small islands, and we're massively over-populated as it is. How many more people can we allow in when our infrastructure, housing, NHS and schooling are no longer adequate for our own needs?

"The UK will take years to recover financially."

Ha ha ha ha....

Another Remainer who can predict the future. Crystal balls again.

How do you know? You DON'T know. None of us knows what the future holds, economically, politically, personally etc, etc, etc, etc.

We can make predictions, just as we try to predict winning lottery numbers.

Some people seem to want the UK to be weaker after Brexit when it could in fact be the best thing we have ever done. Who knows?

I will have no truck with such awful, anti-UK doom mongers, bitter Remainers who spread such negative messages without any concrete proof, insight or knowledge. Even the economists can only predict trends and they often get it wrong. We are leaving and I for one hope for the best for the UK and prefer to read positive forecasts.

Many have predicted the collapse of the EU. All is not well in that institution either. Will it last? Who knows?

Europe is a lot more than a financial institution and it is a long term project. The EU27 understand it and that is why they (or most of them) are sticking with it warts and all. The UK has only ever considered it in terms of the financial benefit it could get from it. The Brexit camp tried to put the debate on a less pragmatic level by mentioning the regaining of "control" but I find that really odd as nobody seem to be able to say how the EU limit their rights and freedom ....

The perso does say they aren't European, so they obviously don't understand the money grab, because, let's be honest, that's what it's all about.

What happens when you realise this is simply not true I wonder - and what will you have done to the half of the country who didn't want what you will have inflicted on them.

I quite agree lemongrove, I don't dislike Europeans, I do dislike lazy Brits but more than anything, I hate being ruled by an undemocratic process and unelected body . It is almost impossible for all countries to agree things so we end up with an expensive, lumbering machine that doesn't serve the people properly. My feelings towards immigration are that in order to protect everybody who lives in Britain, no matter what colour, nationality or creed, we need to ensure that we can house them, give free medical care and a good education. We haven't been able to do that properly since we opened up the borders to so many countries. Let's welcome immigrants but make it so we can do them the justice they deserve rather than have them selling the Big Issue and facing homelessness.

The U.K. will remain part of Europe. Long term EU immigrants, like ck33, can apply for British citizenship and retain their EU citizenship.

Us Brits should also have the option to retain our EU citizenship.

Luckygirl and Radicalnan.So in agreement with you
We are or were? 'Great' Britain. Looked up to by the rest of the world.Were we not doing nicely thank you before we became shackled to what is now nothing more than an all encompassing 'dads army' organisation.
How can so many be brainwashed into believing our future lies as members of the EU
As much as we need a boil on our rear end.

If France held a referendum and the citizens wanted out of the EU,I would suppose it was for those same reasons, and not, childishly because ‘they didn’t like us any more’.

We are still part of Europe, even when we leave the EU.
We will like France Italy and Germany etc just as we do now,
But simply want our own politicians to be accountable to us, in a way that the EU can never be, as Petra and others say.

I'm a remainer and hate the idea of Brexit. But ... when I read about the 'sweetheart' deals Luxembourg struck with Amazon and other major companies to reduce their tax bills, when Juncker was their prime minister, it does make me question the financial set ups within the EU.

We are all Europeans. It's terrible that we are leaving and particularly for young people. The UK will take years to recover financially.