Ted Heath allegations

Niggly, coming at the same time as it was claimed swarming is racist it was so funny.?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-35502574
"The Macur review is the latest in a long line of inquiries, www.gransnet.com/forums/last-dayreports and investigations into sexual and physical abuse at north Wales children's homes in the 1970s and 80s."

Here BBC Wales examines how the allegations first came to light and how they were handled by the authorities.

This enquiry was full of allegations about establishment figures visiting Bryn Estyn home in North Wales.

The report found that a paedophile ring did exist in the Wrexham and Chester areas, with adult men targeting boys in their mid-teens, particularly those in care.

But it said the inquiry had seen no evidence that prominent public figures were involved in the ring. (well they would say that.)

I had heard that many allegations were not dealt with and influence was put onto investigators to suggest that further enquiries "would not be in the public interest" to pursue.

Given the time it took Britain to realise what was going on with "grooming" by Asian gangs. I cannot for a moment be that naive, that I could not believe such behaviour did not occur in different social circles.

Jimmy Saville got away with it for years because no one "thought it could happen."

So I am sure that this "lack of belief" could just as easily have happened within the British establishment as they might have been more easily be protected by members of "the establishment."
This of course is purely conjecture on my part.

Exactly annie! I wish I'd been there with you- mind you we might have giggled and caused embarrassment!!

Nelliemoser - I'm with you on the pure conjecture front. The north Wales homes were dreadful places, with abuse a feature for the young people placed there.

Tweedle - you say it's wrong to have published the report because TH isn't here to defend himself. Neither were Cyril Smith or Jimmy Saville and the same comments were made about the allegations about them, in the early days. By now of course, its generally accepted that both sexually abused and exploited children.

I agree with Tweedle24. I fail to see what good this invstigation does.

A report on the Church's response to allegations of abuse by members of the clergy has just been published. I was written by a former senior lawyer who is now ordained. It's an excellent, detailed analysis and concludes that the Church has historically failed the victims. He says things are improving but makes various recommendations for the future. One of the key statements, Imo, was the need to investigate historical allegations and to learn from the past. That is what is happening with the TH investigations.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4959434/Ted-Heath-police-chief-calls-child-sex-ring-inquiry.html

davidhencke.com/2017/10/05/sir-edward-heath-paedophile-or-no-paedophile/

This sounds a very fair analysis of the police action.

Thanks for the links durhamjen.

It's interesting to read them in the context of the comments from the child abuse enquiry into the way in which police investigations into Cyril Smith were closed down. I read the allegations against CS in Private Eye and the Rochdale Free Press in the late 1970's. In recent years, retired police officers have been interviewed and reported the DPP returned their files with "not in the public interest to prosecute" on them. The files were then removed by M15 and the detectives warned if they ever spoke of the matter, they'd face the sack and prosecution under the Official Secrets Act. Easy now to say they should have whistle blown - but who would have believed them? Why didn't the main stream media publish anything about the allegations at the time?
I admire the CC who is leading the investigation into allegations against Ted Heath. We all saw what happened to for example, the health worker Sarah Rowbotham and police officer Maggie Oliver when they spoke out about the need to prosecute the men involved in the organised abuse of vulnerable young women and girls in Rochdale.
I don't know enough about this to conclude there is some kind of conspiracy but I do believe the extent of child sexual abuse is something that as a society we find almost impossible to believe.

Excellent post iam

It does not appear to be a fair analysis to me, it is implying guilt in my opinion but of course we all read things differently I suppose.

Only Heath and any 'alleged ' victims will know if he was a Peadophile.

I cannot agree when someone thinks looking into historic cases is a waste of money but equally I cannot agree there is sufficient evidence ' in the Heath case ' for there to be an emphatic presumption of guilt.

Heath may be guilty or innocent but the same thing happened to Harvey Proctor, Lord Brammall , Leon Brittan and you don't have to be a high profile figure to be falsely accused as poor Christopher Jefferies found out. They all received a public humiliation and were found not guilty but the media and the public had made it's mind up and the Kangaroo Court was in full swing ' they were guilty ' because of who they are or the public thought they ' looked guilty '.

There is of course another side of the scenario when talking about Jimmy Saville, Cyril Smith , Grenville Janner etc. but in my opinion there is a lot more substantiated evidence in these cases to make a ' fair ' assumption .

Time may well prove me wrong but until then I remain open minded as to Heath and Operation Conifer.

David Hencke's analysis I should say as 2 posts came in as I read the link and typed my response.

David Hencke remains open-minded. Even the title of the article should tell you that!

Of course, I wouldn't expect you to agree with me. You never have done, ever, so what's new?

Why announce it all to camera , just get on with the inquiries .

The full report is here, all 109 pages of it.

www.wiltshire.police.uk/information/documents/op-conifer/797-op-conifer-summary-closure-report/file

So it didn't vanish like so much of the Hillsborough material

durhamjen

Oh dear.

Why do you find bit necessary to make a personal attack just because I have a different interpretation to yourself?

Please allow others to debate in a subject they find of interest without making it about you .

It's true, though, POGS, even if you won't admit it.

Hencke's analysis does NOT imply guilt. He says so, so why won't you believe him?

"The police investigation to my mind has been proportionate and fair. They have not said every one of the 42 ( actually 40 because three cases were the same person under different names) people who came forward totally proved Edward Heath abused them. And of the seven cases , including an 11 year old boy, where they believe Edward Heath should have been questioned under caution, that this meant Edward Heath was automatically guilty. It was just that other facts suggested their allegations sounded serious enough to warrant the ex PM being questioned. about them."

It is good to see the actual report. I just wish people wouldn't treat rumour as fact.

Sigh

In fact, the answer to the OP is in the full report, saying why they are referred to as victims.