Corbyns Momentum

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/12/brexit-debate-how-many-mps-does-take-fill-eight-hours-dead-air

I'm really looking forward to everyone agreeing with whatever it is that JC says about Labour's Brexit position. If they ever finally have one.

I am hoping that one of my sons gives me John Crace's book, I, Maybot, for Christmas.
Otherwise I'll just have to buy it for myself afterwards.

Labour's Brexit position is certainly better than the present Tory shower. They change each other's minds every hour.

"There was no need for anyone to be concerned because everything was for the best in the best of all possible worlds, he insisted. He was well aware that the government had over-reached itself in clause 393...

“It’s clause 397,” Leslie interrupted.

“Of course, yes, clause 397. I got the number wrong,” Letwin conceded. He definitely knew what he was talking about even when he didn’t. Where was he? Oh yes, the government may have over-reached itself, but everything would be fine because the government had promised him it wouldn’t use the powers it was going out of its way to give itself and he believed it could be trusted.

There was a moment’s pause as everyone absorbed Letwin’s flawed logic. Having gone out of his way to point out that being stupid was no bar to being the Brexit secretary, David Davis had then set out to prove it by first contradicting himself within 24 hours and then letting slip that he considered the first stage of the Brexit negotiations to be barely worth the paper they were written on. The government could not have done more over the past few days to underline just how untrustworthy it wanted to be considered. Or creatively ambiguous as it preferred to call it. "

What is it Jen? Difficult to put it into words when it was a tactic to avoid having a position. Now that's what I call leadership!

You should get yourself more exercised over this than Labour's Brexit position.

"David Davis has scrambled to salvage relations with Brussels after he was accused of damaging trust in the Brexit talks by making inflammatory comments.

EU leaders have warned the British government against backtracking on promises made in Brussels after Davis suggested a Brexit breakthrough reached last week had no legal status.

Senior EU figures voiced irritation on Tuesday with Davis’s claim over the weekend that the UK’s concessions in an agreement struck last week to move talks on were merely a statement of intent without legal backing.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, warned that the UK’s divorce deal with the EU depended on the British government sticking to an interim deal made last week on Ireland, citizens’ rights and the financial settlement.

“We will have a final agreement only if the final commitments taken by Theresa May and the British government on Friday are respected,” he told journalists. “And we will be vigilant; we will not accept any backtracking from the UK.”

A senior ally of the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, said the British government risked losing the EU’s good faith. “The first phase of #Brexit negotiations was meant to build trust,” tweeted Manfred Weber, the head of the centre-right bloc in the European parliament. “By downgrading this agreement to a statement of intent, the UK government is putting our trust at risk. The EU27 & UK must make it clear on Thursday that the agreement is binding for both sides.”

Barnier also rejected Davis’s claim that a future trade treaty could be signed on 30 March 2019 – the day after the UK’s EU exit. Barnier said he expected the EU and UK to sign “a political declaration” on the future relationship. “But it cannot be anything else. In technical, legal terms it simply is not possible to do anything else. And David Davis knows that full well.”

Unless, of course, you want us to crash out without a deal.
Is that the Brexiteers real aim?

Thanks for telling me what I should be interested in Jen. You're posting all that cut & paste onto the wrong thread.
This is about Corbyn/Momentum.
You've been as silent as he is on their Brexit policy.

We all know they don't have one. There's nothing about it in their 1972 Socialist's Guide to Politics Annual.

Corbyn wasn't an MP in 1972.
You probably wern't old enough to read then.

The important vote is tomorrow, Grieve's amendment.

You've been as silent as he is on their Brexit policy

We all know they don't have one. There's nothing about it in their 1972 Socialist's Guide to Politics Annual

Primrose

" It is easy to worship socialism for someone who lives in capitalism."
Very true, very succinct

And, of course, most of us would never qualify for a dacha

You probably wern't old enough to read then.
Blimey, we must have some young grans on here

Apologies, Primrose65 you may be young for all I know!
However, if 65 is anything to go by I expect you could read by then, especially an annual.

DJ - "Labour's Brexit position is certainly better than the present Tory shower. They change each other's minds every hour"

You'll absolutely HATE this then dj.

May was in the Commons on Monday to take MPs through the breakthrough she engineered in Brussels on Friday. She spoke and answered questions for two hours.

After her statement one MP described "an outbreak of unity" on the government benches to welcome the progress which had been made.

Figures from eurosceptics like Sir Bill and Iain Duncan Smith to EU enthusiasts such as Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry were united in welcoming what Theresa May had to say. MP Edward Leigh spoke for many when he said:

"Despite all the prophecies of doom and gloom, the Prime Minister, with her calm, true grit, has shown that Brexit can and will be done. We congratulate her on that. Of course it is a compromise, but when we look at the alternative—namely, a Labour Government staying in the single market forever and having no control over immigration—it is amazing how our minds are concentrated in support of the Prime Minister."

I watched it, Day6. I didn't need to read about it.
I expect you will hate the fact that the Tory unanimity didn't even last overnight. They were arguing straight away. In fact she even had to drag two MPs into her office and chastise them for squaring up to each other.

"An EU official said the guidelines for talks on future relations that had been drafted were already “Davis-proofed”, and it was clear what the consequences were if commitments were not respected.

The circulated draft includes the demand that “negotiations in the second phase can only progress as long as all commitments undertaken during the first phase are respected in full and translated faithfully in legal terms as quickly as possible”. "

Jalima Not young enough! I had a fabulous pair of orange platform wedge sandals in 1972 ..... happy days!

Huge exaggeration and inaccuracy dj -

That minor spat happened last Wednesday in a corridor and was to do with a long lasting feud over defence measures. In passing she told them to 'calm down and grow up' apparently, and they trudged off in opposite directions.

But do make a meal out of it....

Primrose65 I can picture you in your orange platforms, reading your annual

"EU offical ......what the consequences were if commitments were not respected.

The circulated draft includes the demand that “negotiations in the second phase can only progress as long as all commitments undertaken during the first phase are respected in full and translated faithfully in legal terms as quickly as possible”. "

Heck, the tone of that is downright nasty.
Why on earth should we renege on the deal we made?

Thank God we are leaving the officious, domineering EU.
I am thankful the UK legal team will go over the deal with a fine toothed comb.

Tragic - sorry dj but I am so angry with Labour and Corbyn now. Labour front bench has abstained, as whipped - on vote to keep Uk in Single market and once again Corbyn sells working people down the river for John McDonnell's broken dream.

Govt wins 100% of amendment votes including those which would have helped prevent the degradation of environmental law and people's rights post Brexit.

Just 40 Labour MPs voted to support the Single Market Amendment. All Labour front benchers abstained, having told MPs to abstain too. Lib Dems, Greens, SNP and even a few Conservative MPs voted for it so it had a chance of passing if Labour had backed it.

There is now only one way forward- and that is for Lib Dems and the Greens to form a strong alliance- and for anyone with guts from both Tories and Labour to cross the floor to them ...

will they do it? It was good enough for Churchill, so why not for them at this real cross-road in the future of our country- a dream...

Following the vote tonight, Vince Cable said:

Labour let down British workers tonight.

This ends any pretence that Jeremy Corbyn is fighting for us to stay in the single market.

He whipped his MPs to support the Conservatives, sitting on his hands rather than voting against their extreme Brexit plans.

This is now a Tory-Labour Brexit

It looks at first glance like fewer Labour MPs supported the amendment than supported Chuka Umunna’s in the Summer – 40 ish now compared to 50 ish then.

I am beyond disgusted and disappointed with them

The full article:

www.libdemvoice.org/vince-labour-should-be-ashamed-56118.html

How anyone who is pro EU and our remaining in it can continue to support Labour now, is beyond comprehension.

Report in The Times today from the independent ethics watchdog chaired by Lord Bew. It calls on Corbyn to rein in Momentum.

"Conservative candidates were significantly more likely to be subjected to intimidation during the general election than those from Labour, according to a report that suggests Jeremy Corbyn should rein in Momentum.
Sarah Lesiter-Burgess, a Welsh Lib Dem: "Threats have varied from gestures of slitting my throat (witnessed by my then 6-year-old daughter) to requesting sexual activities including one disgusting comment. I've found it extremely embarrassing and humiliating as well as frightening."

The report explicitly warns "fringe groups" not to bring inappropriate pressure on elected officials, weeks after Momentum attempted to get candidates to sign up to a "covenant". "

Lord Bew also said the scale of today's online threats and abuse towards MPs reminds him of the early days of the Troubles. "There is something new and bad happening, and our political class really shouldn't have to endure the scale of this. There's definitely a very significant increase in something that is going well beyond that line which is intimidation."

I'm shocked that someone who lived through the Troubles sees Momentum and the way they behave as "an echo in my mind".