Westminster and sexual harassment

JHB talks a lot of sense. It seems general workplace banter and flirting (it was ever thus in my experience) is indeed being confused with sexual abuse. As Jane says, it is a very wide spectrum.

It’s quire ridiculous to say that a perfectly decent man might be scared to look twice at a woman - it’s not looking that’s the problem for heavens sake. Like many of you on here, I’m sure, I had relationships with people I met at work ( and married one of them) They all seemed quite able to work out what was acceptable behaviour - it didn’t involve touching my knee whilst having dinner, it didn’t involve calling me sugar tits or sending me off to buy sex toys and it didn’t involve rape. And I’m pretty sure that they didn’t treat other women that way either. It’s actually incredibly demeaning to most men to suggest that they can’t work out how to behave to women in the work place ( in this case Parliament)

There’s inappropriate behaviour, there’s sexual harassment, there’s sexual abuse and there’s sexual assault. I think most of us are quite clear on the differences - as for banter - ah yes that well known can’t you take a joke sugar tits banter - a cloak for what can be quite intimidating and inappropriate comments. Banter so called can actually be harassment depending on the circumstances

Why are girls not told by parents from a young age they are worthy of respect regardless of whose company they are in.

Why aren’t boys told by parents from a young age that girls are worthy of respect?

Yes maryeliza, again it appears that when women are subjected to unwanted and uninvited sexual comments or acts it is implied by some that they were in some way complicit.

What amazes me is that so many of these men appear not to realise that their behaviour is totally out of order. One man seemed to feel it perfectly within his rights to address a female employee as "sugar tits" and expect her to go shopping for sex toys for the women in his life. Another, married, in his 40's and reportedly a "devout Christian", not content with being caught out once sending explicit texts to a young woman, then goes and does it again.

Bex Bailey has now reported that she was raped and had been strongly advised not to report it because it might damage her career, The response from some people to actresses failing to report sexual abuse or assault was "Well, they should have given up their ambition and left the industry". I wonder if they feel the same about Ms Bailey. I believe she should have had the proper support from the party to feel able to report this to the police and have the man brought to justice. From what has been said, there is no mechanism whatsoever in the House of Commons for MPs and other members of staff for reporting abusive or illegal behaviour - and this must be addressed.

Some people think that a number of the examples given of sexual misconduct are trivial and that only some sort of physical force or actual rape should be seen as serious and requiring punishment. I think that if any such behaviour is not challenged and dealt with, it reinforces the idea that it's all a bit of a laugh and if a woman objects to such treatment then the problem is with her.

As for the Julia Hartley-Brewer incident, she herself is reportedly content to have warded off this man's attentions and to have received an apology. She did not wish to take it any further, says the man is a friend and is emphatic that it is of no concern to her now. However, if there is no real repercussion for behaving in such a boorish manner, there is no disincentive from doing the same thing again to someone else who may not be quite as self-confident as JHB undoubtedly is.

Although I don't necessarily think people should automatically be sacked in all cases of this nature I do think they should be severely disciplined and should certainly not be given a second chance.

Thinking all this media attention and naming and shaming is going to stop sexual assaults and rape is fantasy.

The death penalty never stopped murders.

If it's of no concern to you now, why bring it up?!

Of course it will help stop this sort of behaviour in from men in prominent positions I think...but it will not stop Jo Bloggs from groping Jane Smith will it?

It might make him think twice though annie.
Just read that some academic woman posed in a corset for a newspaper and was surprised to be sent what she called a suggestive text by Chris Grayling. Thats the sort of thing that will lead to this whole uproar against sexual harassment being written off by the very people who need to watch their own behaviour.
What did that daft woman expect?

Only makes the newspapers if it’s newsworthy and someone in a prominent position.

Nobody bothers to report about Miss Ordinary do they?

Who on earth annie said that sexual assaults and rapes would be stopped because of media attention and naming and shaming? We aren’t just talking about sexual assaults for one thing However, if there is a clear message about appropriate behaviour ( of all levels and types) at Westminster then at least it would be a start. I really can’t understand why some women think any of this type of behaviour is acceptable anywhere but in Westminster - do you think it’s fine that MPs regularly mocked women MPs in the chamber by sculpting bottoms and breasts with their hands when a woman got up to speak. And that was in the last few years. Would anyone on here think it fine if they or their dds walked into the office or stood up to speak at a meeting and was met by that? Of course not. We’ve tolerated for far too long boorish sexist behaviour by those who are supposed to be governing us. As for Damien Green ( not CG) - if he did send flirtatious texts or whatever he should know better (corset or no corset) he’s a senior Government minister ffs.

Read the other threads Maryeliza54.

Westminster, police force, armed forces, entertainment, suddenly all attention is on Westminster . It's men no matter where.

Politicians are disliked so they have become top of the pile .

What is irritating are certain posters condemning MP's yet when I have mentioned a certain politician who has no respect for marriage vows they squeal - what he does in his private life has nothing to do with work as an MP.

anniebach You appear to be saying that anyone who is divorced and has re-married is in the same category as someone who sexually harasses or assaults another person.

I don't think MPs have been specifically condemned - as has already been recounted by several people on this thread and others, this sort of behaviour goes on in every type of workplace, on public transport, in universities, pubs and clubs, etc. But female MPs and other employees have revealed that sexual harassment and assault is a major problem for them. Do you think they should have kept quiet then?

jane I have read the other thread thank you very much but I thought threads were supposed to be freestanding. No TATs and all that

annie I wondered how long it would take to bring that up again. This thread is about sexual harassment/assault (in all its forms) it’s not about consensual sexual relationships freely entered into by adults. I’m sorry that your blind irrational hatred of JC prevents you from being able to see the huge difference between the two. Some of us on here have said that the consensual affairs that are on the list being circulated have no place there as consensual affairs are not about abuse of power or potentially criminal behaviour. If you want to start another boring thread about the evil JC and his marriages then do so but don’t conflate that with the serious issues being debated here. We never hear your views on other philandering politicians do we? I do so wonder why.

Jane10, it wasn't Chris Grayling, it was Damian Green. It appears there was a degree of family friendship between him and Kate Maltby, the woman who made the accusation; he sent her a mildly suggestive text after seeing a photograph of her posing in a corset to illustrate an article she had written. He has now instructed his solicitors to sue her for defamation of character concerning her allegations of sexual advances.
Both of them should have kept their fingers off the send button.

I agree eazybee!

So Fallon has resigned for just 'knee touching'. Of course he has

That’s my thoughts mary

FWIW, I think TM is taking this very seriously - did you see her face during the session on this issue?

Well so that’s what did for MF then?

I see that a Labour MP (from the Shadow Cabinet) has been suspended now while allegations against him are investigated.
Looks like many heads will roll before this is over.

Reason for focus on the Tories is, in part, because the government is already very weak and shaky. No overall majority, dodgy agreement with the DUP while failing to get a government agreed in Stormont, floundering in the Brexit negotiations. Another reason is that they are in power and therefore more susceptible to the influence of those who might use sex against them to gain influence and power. If a hypothetical minister of defence had a tendency to get drunk and grope young women, who's to know they are not working for Putin or an arms manufacturer. So even if you set the ethics of sexual harassment aside - this is a big deal, and ministers need to be held to stricter standards than humble back benchers.

There is the interesting context that only 21% of Tory MPs are female. 45% of Labour MPs are women. It's also interesting to compare the %s the two front benches.