Private wealth and public squalor

And that needs resources too - it's no good giving a rough sleeper a home without the backup help which is needed because that is a Catch 22 situation.

Oh, they are ALL on drugs, maryeliza, and not worth spending any money on.

Reread that, Jalima, and see how heartless it sounds.

X posts and I think we are both saying the same thing in fact maryeliza. However, to deny that substance abuse is a cause of homelessness (or a symptom) and related to crime just because one poster someone constantly disagrees with stated it is to deny that it is true.

Well we are rich enough to provide the resources but not caring enough so to do

Jalima, lemon was specifically talking about drug abuse, however you classify it.
You don't appear to have noticed that fewer than half is NOT most.

Drugs are a huge part of both crime and rough sleeping, you all know that I am guessing.
Yes, give the churches credit where it’s due, they give help to many. As do The Salvation Army.
Some Councils do more than others, Mendip sounds a good one.

Not saying they are not connected. Just saying that it is NOT MOST.

durhamjen you always go out of your way to disagree with what I say, so it doesn’t really matter, but is very obvious to all.

Are you actually saying, Jalima, that if drugs are taken off the streets, rough sleepers will all but disappear?
That's what lemon said.

You never can admit when you are wrong, can you, lemon.

Do you really believe that rough sleeping will all but disappear if drugs are taken off the streets?
Or did you just exaggerate for effect?

the UK Drug Misuse and
Dependence Guidelines state that:
“The UK has among the highest rates of recorded illegal
drug abuse in the western world” and heroin is named as
being the main problem among the majority of adult
drug users in treatment (9).
More specifically, “levels of drug use amongst homeless people in 5 English cities have been
put at between 66 and 76%”(10). Having visited a number of homeless centres and drug
services, the drug of most concern appeared to be heroin. Nat Wright raises the issue of
“poly drug use” being common among the homeless population (6). This involves the use of
more than one drug to achieve the desired effect.
It is almost impossible, without asking individuals, to ascertain whether it was drug addiction
that made them homeless or whether homelessness led to drug addiction.^

I would say that between 66% and 76% is quite high.

www.healthy-inclusion.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2010/12/samuels09.pdf

Denying the correlation between the two is to deny that people need more resources and more help.

Monica, the Big church does not pay the clergy’s wages.
Each parish church is part of a benefice. This could consist of one church or several. We are a group of 4.
We are asked to pay the parish share. In our case it is over £60,000, £15,000 for each church. This pays for the vicar, his house and expenses, contributes to the pension and administration costs. Running costs are extra.
Our parish has about 6 regular worshippers. A lot for them to find. Of course the parish receives payment for weddings and funerals, half to the church half to the diocese. Nowadays the collection plate at these events is pretty small. Mourners give to the charity of choice, wedding guests haven’t got any money with them.
Our parish churches are in financial trouble. Ignore the report that says that donations to the church are holding up.
Not on our patch.
I have suggested that we open our building to the homeless.
Can you imagine the consternation that would cause in the village? Not in our back yard. Cynical moi?

You never can admit when you are wrong, can you, lemon


Can you durhamjen?

Read it again, Jalima.
Between 66 and 76% in five major cities.
That's not exactly the whole of the UK, is it?
What about the other cities? What about the towns and villages?
Even between 66 and 76% is quite a wide span.

Context is everything.

In a report written by Nat MJ Wright, it is suggested
that “smoking is more common among homeless populations and prevalence may be as high as 80%.”

Maybe not selling cigarettes to homeless people would miraculously find them a home.

Pamela are you really saying that 6 regular worshippers are attempting to maintain one vicar and 4 church buildings?
Is some degree of rationalisation/amalgamation not needed?

60% of people in the U.K. think that the government is neglecting important issues in the country.

Is there proof that "a high proportion of homelessness is caused by substance abuse ..."? By proof, I mean reliable, reputable studies that show this.

The fact that many rough sleepers abuse drugs and/or alcohol doesn't automatically mean that their substance abuse predates their homelessness.

If I were to find myself in their predicament, living rough, with no family or friends to turn to, I am quite certain that I too would start to abuse alcohol to dull the (mental) pain and the cold, but it certainly wouldn't be the cause of my plight!
To be honest, when I imagine myself in these people's shoes, I find it hard to see a way back for them, even for those not taking drugs or drinking excessively. How can you possibly turn your life around when you have absolutely nothing, and nowhere to call home? It doesn't bear thinking about!

Yes, I did make that point MamaCaz - which came first, chicken or egg?

There is help available, shelter, warmth and support. I saw a man the other night on the local news saying 'if only he could get off (the drugs) he'd be OK'. Optimistic, but he was willing to be helped.

I just thought that lemongrove's post made a point worth debating but immediately you jumped in and accused her of prejudice durhamjen.
IMO your post was prejudiced against lemongrove - if you had answered in a civil fashion the debate could have been had.

And I did not fail to note that you tried to put words into my mouth which I did not say.

if you take away the drugs they will not suddenly be given somewhere to live
Maybe not, but they will stand a better chance.
I have a friend who maintains many HMOs here in Southend ( a thankless job) The majority of these residents are abusers of drink and drugs. The crime and violence is, at times, horrendous.
Many many of these residents are given chance after chance to continue living in the HMOs. They are moved from one house to another but still causing the same mayhem wherever they are rehoused
Eventually the landlord has had enough, and so have the council who are paying their rent. There you have your homeless.

"Yes, I did make that point MamaCaz - which came first, chicken or egg?"

Sorry Jalima - it took me so long to type my post that I missed yours

You do realise, Jalima, that the statistics you quote are from a student thesis, don't you?