Let's not Forget Brexit(2)

Smithy- none of our friends are remainers, but many older close family are- and they all live a long way away. It is important to keep those family ties- and yet it is so hard- especially when they visit for a week and more. We've managed so far- but it is very difficult- especially when they insist on bringing the DM with them and leave it for you to read for info.

And I a hear som of you say- why on earth did Jura come back after such a long break. I often wonder myself lol.
I live in a rural area of Switzerland, where there are VERY few expats here- and the few are young and working hard. I have therefore no-one here I can discuss the issues, air my fears and frustrations at the whole debacle- and share our real concerns that the fall of the £ and loss of reciprocal health care will force our next move.

So Lemongrove, if I do whinge, as you say- because of real concerns about our future, but mainly about our real concerns abut the UK - where our children and grandchildren live (they have dual nationality, and can access Irish nationality too- so they are lucky than most- and work in businesses that would export here very easily- but even so). It is very hard not to be able to share and discuss.... call it whinge if you wish. Although I have to say, recently most of the whingeing is being done by Brexiteers, it seems to be- as the whole thing comes tumbling down around our ears. At least when the sh ... mud really hits the fan- we will be able to say 'well we did try to tell you so.... Going to UK to visit those gorgeous granchildren and great friends - will be interesting. Off to the hairdresser's I go (to France...)

I would put these paras on Jen.

Their dilemma is thus. From the 1970s onwards, the party established a new order based on privatisation, deregulation, an assault on collective organising, and slashing taxes on the rich and corporate Britain. In the aftermath of the cold war and the surrender of social democracy to neoliberalism, Tories told themselves their order would last for ever.

Unfortunately that order stripped away security for millions and brought about stagnating living standards, inefficient privatised utilities charging rip-off prices and grotesque levels of inequality. In the June election, the public were presented with a viable radical alternative – and a political consensus which has prevailed for a generation collapsed, costing the Tories their majority.

These chime with Maisie's post in that it explains, yet again, that many of the issues which caused people to vote leave were nothing to do with the EU but the move to the right by governments since the 1970s and those on the far right of the Tories who do not think about people only getting rich themselves.

Well said, Cindersdad, keep up the good work.

All Remainers, even if you're not LibDems, please sign this petition

www.libdems.org.uk/exit-brexit

Smithy a lot of us feel a bit like that. The few of my friends who voted LEAVE are usually quite reasonable and a small number have actually changed their minds. Not one of my REMAIN friends has moved to LEAVE. I just can't understand why now so many facts have come to light how anyone can think that leaving is sensible. I've been on street stalls for Open Britiain when we do ask people how they voted and could they tell us why voted that way. The majority of Leavers refuse to discuss the matter, few come up with any reasons. The same is true of MP's many of whom refuse to talk about Brexit and keep to the party line whatever they may feel themselves.

I confront them one the few chances I get to meet them face to face and they don't like being cornered. Pro-Leave MP's refuse to come to Pro Remain meetings so we have no chance to question their reasoning. There just refer back to the referendum result and we all know just how flawed that is. They won't countenance the notion that enough of the population have changed their minds and many non voters (shame on them!) have woken up belatedly. Like you I'm not willing to just give up because the effect of leaving is so damaging and once taken hard to reverse.

I suggest you get involved with your Open Britain or Pro-European Group, Join the Lib Dems or Greens. You could join the Tories or Labor and rock the boat from within. The more pressure we collectively put on the more likely Brexit is to fall apart but it looks like it may do that anyway. Meet your MP face to face at his/her surgery and make your voice heard, they can ignore Emails.

Thanks for the thanks, everyone. Though really there's no need, I just did a copy and paste job.

If any of you are on twitter I think it would be worth finding the guy and thanking him...

Thanks for that Maisie. I can't discuss the subject with one of my best friends who was in the leave camp, as I feel so strongly and am afraid of falling out. However I have just sat back and watched what has seemed like a slow motion car crash as the whole thing topples like a house of cards.

I was going to cut and paste a relevant paragraph, but they are all so good, I can't decide which one.

Yes, GracesGran. He speaks for ordinary people, doesn't he?
Wish I was as clever as Owen Jones, too.

www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20171108IPR87615/brexit-ep-outlines-its-red-lines-on-latest-uk-citizens-rights-proposals

From yesterday's meeting of the EU parliament.
Why have they still not sorted residents rights after Brexit?
How many times has May said they are not using them as bargaining chips, and this is the easiest thing to sort out, but still the problem continues?

Thanks Maizie; gosh; feel quite emotional reading that.

If I was clever enough I would have written that. He is saying what I try to say so often. Thanks Jen.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/08/chaos-no-10-tory-ideology-neoliberalism

Owen Jones. Night of the Living Dead meets Fawlty Towers.

Tomorrows newspapers are reporting that the senior people in the EU are expecting May's government to fall before the New Year.

Maizie, I like the comments on that twitter thread, most of them positive and the negative ignored.
Thanks for a good read.

Maizie thank you for 08-Nov-17 11:14:02 Wow.

I am - but I will bet you that few leavers are whitewave. Their allergy to experts would probably stop them as would the need to emote about what our future should be. I think these programmes would be a little factual.

maizie whether genuine or not, that is exactly why many poor voted for Brexit.

The major problem for the Brexiters is that these folk will soon be extremely disallusioned, so Brexit loons/ tax avoiders have somehow got to keep a lid on things until we have actually left and they have made their countless billions. They won’t give a toss about the worker - they are just cogs in the wheel who keep them in the style to which they have become accustomed.

Anyone listening to the brexit series on R4?

Nah; they've all got their fingers in their ears...

Anyone listening to the brexit series on R4?

Tell me now that Brexit it is a good idea

There will be more of that whitewave. Lies coming home to roost. Simon Stevens, Chief Executive of NHS England, has made what I would see as the most political speech I have heard from anyone running the NHS and he is asking for the 'money on the bus'

Brexiters must honour extra cash pledge for NHS, says health chief
NHS waiting lists 'to hit five million by 2021', says health chief Simon Stevens
NHS ‘must get money promised in Brexit by Leave campaign’

So, all those who voted leave, how are you going to fulfil you promise?

This was on twitter this morning. I think it's genuine

The thread + comments is here but I've copied and pasted for the non linkfollowers

twitter.com/simonunion1/status/927846023703212035

Start
1 Before ref like many in the north my wages were stagnant. In my work place most new employees were EU agencies workers.
2 The workers coming in were all on temporary contracts and were replacing workers with permanent contracts who had left
3 This created a feeling amongst the British workers of fear, lack of job security and that we were being undercut.
4 Many of my fellow workers including myself blamed EU and this only strengthened when Cameron called the EU ref.
5 During the ref feelings hardened right wing press constantly blaming EU for everything and Farage with his clever racism narrative
6 Both sides spouted out facts and figures but this did not matter lies and truths on both sides with dash of manipulation to boot
7 I knew at this point we were going to win the EU ref. Vote leave had manage to mix nostalgia, patriotism and a hint of racism.
8 I do remember at the time Corbyn had come to power based on a lot of the feelings I describe yet seem distant with no fight in him.
9 I also remember the better off office staff, managers and tech people who had seen no change in their working environment voting remain
10 We watched many anti EU videos of Farage adding to my one sided view I do remember Russia today logo on a lot of them
11 Night of ref knew we had won there are a lot more working class suffering job insecurity, zero hours and the rest, this time vote counted
12 When the results started to come in it was exactly what I thought a lot of North East Labour areas voted out followed by many more
13 My area over 60% voted out and I with many others very happy to watch the government squirm rabbit stuck in head lights no plan B
14 Things settled quickly and went about our daily lives economy seemed ok and the experts had egg on their faces
15 Later in the year the effects of the devalued pound started to take effect thought price worth paying
16 One thing I did feel was the atmosphere had changed more people I spoke to were much happier being derogatory towards others from EU
17 March just gone went to Auschwitz for long awaited trip this was an eye opener.
18 The one thing that stuck out was how many companies turned a blind eye to make money out of other people’s misery. e.g. IG Farben
19 Slave labour from camps used as cheap work force that could be killed when not productive enough unlike normal labour that costs
20 On my return spoke to a manager about this experience a comment from him changed me "companies can be cruel in the pursuit of profits"
21 started seeing the polish lads i work with in the same boat they just want to earn a living but even less job security
22 Stepped back now and looked at the big picture, the EU as its faults but I do believe it as the greater good of all our nations at heart
23 I look at the people at the top of the leave and see only right wing self interest, nationalism they do not care for the likes of me
24 I see their financial interests at threat from the EU and would love to distance them, I see Putin trying to destabilise Europe
25 I see manipulation of our democracy to benefit a small number of very powerful people
26 EU helped with workers regulations to benefit the many not the few our country fought against it
27 EU slapped down phone companies that were ripping of citizens with roaming charges now cheap all over our country did nothing
28 EU fights to harmonise trade across all member countries this allows everyone to see if a UK company is over charging
29 EU allows you to cross a boarder buy cheap cigs booze and your government cannot tax you again
30 EU make sure your safe you can get injured or ill in any member state they fix you up to get home try doing that in America
31 EU allows anyone to retire in any country e.g. buy a flat in Spain enjoy the climate
32 EU as very strict consumer rights laws which stop companies ripping you off buy in Germany your rights protected here
33 and many many more, these are what matter to the average person
34 Yes it`s a struggle when Eastern countries come up to the level of the West migration will be more balanced
35 If the right wing get us out there will be a rush to the bottom and the lowest rung always end up worst off
36 The experts did make a mistake they should of said this will be a slow motion train wreck instead of the fast change they predicted
37 The majority like me were turkeys voting for xmas the country went too far right taking with it the feeling of insecurity e.g food banks
38 Educating the public stamping down on bad practice helping the people at the bottom would have stopped this they did not care
39 Instead years of cuts, the poor being ridiculed on CH4 CH5 as scroungers benefit by the sea and so on. It was no surprise to many
40 I would vote remain now but unless Labour wake up and see the right wing have played on voters fears it will be to late
41 Just my thoughts feelings and may be that of others no figures added to argue over working class bloke in the north
42 Thanks for the likes and apologise to those who got angry
End

As for Grimsby, Cornwall, Sunderland and the farmers they should have thought before they voted leave. They all benefited more than most areas so why did they not realize that. Isn't populism a wondrous instrument for hastening national decline. The impact statement affecting 58 sectors was never properly drafted, it does exist but only as an internal memo, the 58 sectors are just listed at the end. I'd be ashamed to publish it too!
Impact Statement

"Daniele Nouy, head of supervision at the European Central Bank, said about 50 banks have discussed their Brexit business-relocation plans with authorities in the European Union.

Nouy said in Frankfurt on Tuesday that license applications from about 20 banks are in some stage of assessment by supervisors on the continent. “Maybe they have not signed the formal requirement,” she said, but they have made a “pretty comprehensive application that can be turned into a formal one very, very fast.”

International banks are working on plans to shift workers from the U.K. to the continent after Brexit to maintain access to the single market. Chief Executive Officer Sergio Ermotti has said UBS Group AG will start the process of moving London-based employees to expanded offices inside the EU early next year."

I didn't know there were fifty banks! However, they are all talking about moving, twenty to Frankfurt, starting early in the new year.

I thought the EU had already ruined it, ww Isn't that why they voted Leave?

Grimsby voted to leave, but is now asking for special exemption from Brexit otherwise it will ruin their fishing trade.