Let's not Forget Brexit(2)

That letter is so good dj I bet none of the Brexiters will read it.

Very moving indeed - and yes,, what the f* do we do now?

Besides being a good letter it is very interesting to see where Robert Peston is coming from and what his principles are.

That is really interesting. His analysis of which groups voted for Brexit is a little different then the ones we often hear - and, of course, groups form in many ways. It does ring true to the conversations I have managed to have with some leavers too.

I think the analysis needs reading several times and an attempt made to understand. Understanding is the only way the political parties can rescue the situation or, I fear, the very people who didn't count the economics as high as what they believe will be greater self determination, will be the ones who suffer. If the parties do not understand I fear that the lives of those "millions who didn’t think their lives could get much worse" will do just that.

Here is the Brexit coalition of the older haves and the younger (but not young) have-nots: there were clear majorities for leaving the EU among those retired, the unemployed and those not working but looking after the home; and Brexit was backed both by those who own their homes outright, with no mortgage, and those in council homes and other social housing.

news.huffingtonpost.com/t/t-l-kkjlmt-naukhjiy-d/

Well done, Hilary Benn.

But poor people who voted for Brexit were not wrong, in that it was probably the best opportunity they would ever have to give the establishment a proper kicking, for ignoring them, for forgetting they exist.

I've always felt that that was a very significant factor in the Brexit vote. The problem is that having seen off Cameron et al (the only plus factor in this sorry mess) they haven't seen off the government and policies which caused their problems. And the Vote Leave cheerleaders were from exactly the same establishment elite as the one they were kicking.

Anyone can predict anything at all ( even Peston) but there is no guarantee they will be right. Economists all disagree with one another.
Always assuming the worst is a strange and negative mindset, and a lot of the gloom and doom around us leaving the EU seems almost to be enjoyed by some.
Nothing is arranged yet about our terms of trade.

Mystic Mogg and the tabloids' horoscopes can indeed predict anything indeed - current predictions on the effect on the economy and jobs are from people with very extensive experience - and I really do NOT see them disagreeing with each other. I'd therefore be VERY grateful indeed if you could give links to Senior exerienced economits who are currently advocating that Brexit is going to be good for the UK. Thanks.

Mystic Meg. Mogg is a cat.

The view from the top of the shard will be very different when the 99% rebel. The end of The Super-rich and Us.

It makes me so cross, as our young can never have what we had , they have been utterly shafted.

The 70s were such an optimistic time, and it has gone totally pear shaped.

Brexiteers, it seems, are allergic to forecasts. We know they don't like experts but those experts - giving a view - are deemed to have no more knowledge than an ordinary Bexiteer. Perhaps they would like to start forecasting the storms and hurricanes; after all they have the same skills as someone who has spent years studying and understanding these things.

Hmm ... and it is these people who decided to turn everyone else's lives upside down - just because they could - certainly not with any 'expert' insight into what they are doing to our country.

I think that lemon just wants to cling tightly to her illusions, jura.

The only economists I know of who have predicted a successful future post Brexit are the Economists for Leave group; led by Patrick Minford, but they also predict that manufacturing will have to go. Quite where that leaves a whole swathe of workers I'm not sure...

I could say MaizieD that you want to cling on to your illusions, that the UK will go down the pan if we are not part of the EU.
There is no reason that we won’t do well in the future, but if you don’t want to think this, or even hope for it, well, it’s a free country.

I don't think those in the 'older haves' group of Brexit voters that Peston refers to will ever let go of those illusions Maizie. They will most likely say very much what they are saying at the moment about problems with the economy, etc.; it's all someone else's fault for saying what we have said.

The poor 'younger (but not young) have-nots', those where the industries have gone, or who have got to the stage where however hard they work they cannot live on what they earn will, I think, loose their belief in the people who led them into the even deeper mess they are likely to inherit.

lemongrove- I'm sure Mystic Mogg would do an even better job

well, possibly!

In the meantime, the Government has done its own assessments, as we all know. But now MPs have voted for them to be released- the GVT and DD say they will be published within weeks. Now Lemongrove and D6 - if predictions are good, why of why not publish them NOW, as requested. Simple. We don't need Mystic Meg or Mogg- they are available NOW.
It's a mistery !?!

Has anyone read any of the EU Brexit assessments? There are hundreds available (thanks, Maizie, I found them!).

They will need to be printed won’t they? Presumably that will take a week or so.Who knows?

No need for printing these days - on internet in minutes - seconds, nano seconds even, as DD says ;)

There may be no need, but I thought that Government papers were exactly that, paper.

It may be interesting for us to read them but, believing in a Parliamentary democracy, the really important thing is that the MPs who need to see them have access to them. It looks as if they will but I can see no reason, other than an abuse of power, why the Government did not do this straight away.

Not the only papers that the Tories don't want to publish. The speaker has had to ask them to give him their policies on sexual harassment.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/02/tories-to-be-forced-to-publish-sexual-harassment-policies-by-speaker

That will be interesting.

I'm not sure I agree with bringing back an old Labour case that was actually dealt with at the time.