British workers are among the worst idlers in the world

The anti-EU propaganda relentlessly trumpetted by the DE, DM and Sun for years and years had a powerful effect. The readers of these papers tend to be people with lower levels of education.

There is no denying thses two facts, even if the DM reading brexiteers on GN do have double firsts from Cambridge. I doubt whether many of them have degrees in statistics.

It is quite clear maryeliza that throwing around insults at the 17 plus Leave voters trying to cite ‘uneducated’ At every opportunity does the Remain voters no favours.
We are Leaving, who are ‘the group of losers’ supposed to be, hmm?
Simply getting angry with things does not equate to holding the government to account you know, that is the job of Labour in Parliament.Nobody cares what posters on GN says about it.

* Varian* do not fall into the easy trap of thinking that anybody who voted Leave on GN is a DM reader.
This is another common insult flung about too readily on here.

Good post Jaycee and well said.

Simply getting angry with things does not equate to holding the government to account you know, that is the job of Labour in Parliament.

You're extraordinarily passive, lemon. Do you really think that your vote is the only form of political expression you have? And that after that you just sit back and let Parliament get on with it?

Politics is as much about people as about what goes on in Parliament. Democracy doesn't come to a stop after a vote, whether in a GE or a referendum; it is perfectly legitimate for people to discuss current affairs and to make their views known in whichever legal way they chose.

The best way, of course is by lobbying MP s and Ministers. We are supposed to have a representative democracy which considers all views; our representatives can't represent us if they don't know what we want.

Additionally - it is the role of Parliament to hold the Government to account not just the Opppsition. Some Tory MPs do that such as SW.

I think PR would have a great effect on Parliament holding governments to account maryeliza. Not that I can see that happening in the near future, sadly.

I have no education beyond 16 years, DH only to 18 years. That doesn't mean we can't think, reason, hold opinions, or vote as we see fit.

No one is saying you can’t Norah the point being made is the relationship ( causal or not) between level of educational achievement and voting Leave or Remain

Perhaps nothing else was considered, other than educations, when there may be more valid under causes. Poverty and money to my mind.

The nature of each person counts too - some will only vote for what they think will benefit them personally while others will look at the overall good of the community and maybe a different age group to their own. I am speaking generally about elections here not specifically about one vote.

Salt and butter, please.
Norah - despite being told for years that butter was bad for us we were then told that in fact it is not.

However, scientists now say again that butter is indeed bad for us:
The findings come from a study of 120,000 people by scientists at Harvard University's School of Public Health, in Boston.

I can prove anything by statistics except the truth.
George Canning

There were lots of relationships between voting and other characteristics of which educational level was only one- others included age, sex, geographical area, usual party vote. Education in some surveys is measured by the highest qualification you achieved, others by the age you finished formal education. It would be impossible to measure people’s intelligence in a survey ( or probably any other way really) so they do the best they can. Whatever we think of this, there is no dispute that there is a relationship between educational level and referendum vote. Whatever that means

Anyone who says statistics can prove the truth knows nothing about statistics. Statistics deals fundamentally in probabilities and whether things are more or less likely to happen. It’s because most people including obviously Canning don’t understand that basic point that people say such stupid things about statistics.

OBVIOUSLY That is why Britain called for help from other countries after the war
But could that be due also to the fact that so many of our young men - and women - who would have made up our workforce lost their lives in that war?

^ I do sneakingly admire some of the young Europeans who have made the effort to seek a new life here and are working hard and valued by employers^
Yes, I agree, but the enterprising British have always done that too - and still do.
It is interesting to note that in other countries it is often the 'local workers' who are not interested in putting in a fair day's work for a good day's pay and 'foreign' workers (including British) who are the willing and hardest workers.

For example, getting away from the referendum. We have a figure of 8.2 for maternal mortality in this country. This is quite hard data as the figures for this type of death are as accurate as you could probably get. However,that figure on its own is of limited value except for comparing us across time and with other countries. The really importantv work comes from identifying the causes of the death and any relationships/associations that exist - ie what factors make a death more likely? Having that factor does not mean you will die but that your risk is increased. That sort of knowledge allows services to be designed that target women at higher risk ( exactly the same happens with infant mortality). Statistics over the years have saved and improved lives - policy makers just need to be able to understand them and their limitations

maryeliza54, your quote: "Anyone who says statistics can prove the truth knows nothing about statistics. "

Do you mean for there to be a NOT in there ^ I wonder?

Humm Norah let me try and think about that.Canning said that you can’t prove the truth with statistics - that’s true but it’s not what statistics are for - so is the opposite true that you can prove the truth with statistics? I think the same argument stands - statistics is about probabilities so degrees of liklihood not truth per se. My head hurts ?

In the meantime, Farage has again been filmed during a talk saying that he would don kakis and take his gun to the streets if Brexit does not go ahead. At what stage should he be arrested for peddling hatred and violence, again and again?

The EU pump a lot of money into our university system. Guess what the lectures said in a letter. Most are remainers and they reach our children. I heard in the radio some young university students saying they kept quiet if they were brexiteers. Things are never as they seem!

So you are saying that the EU is buying the opinions of university lecturers? Maybe it’s just that the lecturers are better informed?

fullfact.org/education/how-much-money-do-british-universities-get-eu/

Here are the facts about how much the EU gives the universities - about 2% of their total,income - I wouldn’t call this pumping a lot of money in. I’d call it 2%.

I would suggest they shouldn't be biased but put both sides off the argument.

How do w know they are biased? I know the DM says that but ........

I think Daisynance made a good point on page 2, about the UK being an island nation. As well as being cut off geographically from the rest of Europe, we haven't had to face the threat of invasion for ages (since the vikings?) as others have. This must have an effect on our mentality.
Living in France I've found that the memory of occupation here is still very prevalent in many ways.
In a lighter mood, when I saw the title of this thread I thought of that song " 'Right' said Fred."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge_4SlJWfl0