Animal Rights after the Brexit Repeal Bill

sorry, practices
meaning bullfighting.

I don’t think it’s about comparing Britain to Europe, is it? It’s about the fact that farming is by its very nature a cruel practice that treats animals as products.
No, it's not about that at all, but if you would like to start a thread about that nightowl I am sure it would be of interest to Gransnetters.

I am sure that there is room for improvement; we could be leading the way and showing Europe a better way of treating animals if we were not leaving the EU, but we are. And, being a tolerant nation, we have not insisted on Spain and other EU countries abandoning their cruel practises, some of which are nothing to do with farming methods. Catalonia banned this practice but a Spanish court overturned this ban - the only thing that may stop this is if more humans are killed during a bullfight.

Who is closing their eyes btw?

They are different topics nightowl and both yourself and durhamjen are using a distraction ploy yourselves.

We have excellent standards of animal welfare in Britain, which is the subject under discussion, not should we all become vegetarians overnight.

There are areas that should be improved on, even in the UK
And this is that at present there are relaxations to the rules under religious grounds, halal and kosher. I would like allfarmed animals to be stunned first in the UK before being killed.
It’s a whole other discussion though to say (on this thread)
That no farmed animals should be killed.

They’re not separate topics though are they lemongrove? They’re inextricably linked. It’s about double standards, double think, and cognitive dissonance. We can feel a lot more comfortable if we can convince ourselves that we are so much better than our European neighbours and close our eyes to the reality of what happens here

The truth is that a few posters go looking for anything they think will show government in a bad light, and are probably disappointed that this latest news item is a load of rubbish.

Not a distraction at all.....but the whole point actually, as we are keeping/ amending EU laws.
The eating of meat ( and thus farming) or getting rid of all farmed animals ( eating them?) and then us all living on veggies and whatever is another, and different topic altogether.

I don’t think it’s about comparing Britain to Europe, is it? It’s about the fact that farming is by its very nature a cruel practice that treats animals as products. Some farming practices are better than others and some farmers may be kinder than others but there’s no getting away from the fact that the end result is a dead animal, or actually thousands of dead animals, killed in their prime.

Some of us find the exploitation of animals wherever it happens in the world abhorrent, some don’t, that’s it really. Looking for countries that are worse than us is just a distraction from what’s happening here at home.

from your comments on GN durhamjen anybody would be forgiven for thinking that you hate your own country.
Very odd.

You are making yourself look ridiculous now durhamjen
Why not just quit?
And start a thread on vegetarianism if that is what you want to talk about.

Oh yes, there is plenty of room for improvement and farming intensively certainly needs keeping a close eye on. These establishments are regularly inspected, all need a license to operate and are streets ahead of most EU countries who have a habit of turning a blind eye for fear of upsetting farmers, particularly in France. It would be fantastic to see the end of intensive farming, but if that can't be achieved then the care and well being of these creatures must be paramount and I am certain that no government whatever it's colour would disagree.

I don’t think there are many farmers who believe that animals are not sentient beings. If for no other reason than a healthy pain free animal produces a good carcass so more profit.

I’ve been in our local slaughter house and know they treat the animals with respect and calmness. It makes their lives easier and keeps the carcass good.

There is always room for improvement in animal welfare and we should always be aware, but Britain is ahead of much of the EU and the rest of the world.

You're flogging a dead horse djen

Norfolk shows as having a high number of indoor raised pigs which is strange when so many fields around here are covered in happy outdoor pigs. They have the added advantage of cleaning the ground of weeds and fertilise it naturally so decreasing the need for chemicals. Sheep I can only think that the fact that pigs destined for slaughter spend the last month of their lives indoors on straw in order to decrease the fat levels slews the figures.

Sorry, 'sentient'.

Goodness dj you'll undoubtedly be defending bull fighting, vile festivals in Spain, the disposal of donkeys, worn out greyhounds etc, circus animals, practises too horrible to even think about in many EU countries, all state approved. Not to mention intensive pig farming in Denmark, Holland, France, the list is endless. The EU may well consider animals to be sentinent, so what, unless you enforce these appalling cruelties which Europe clearly doesn't, that word is totally meaningless. Oh yes, they love hunting in the countries of the EU, songbirds are a favourite,(think Malta, Cyprus, Spain) in fact anything that moves. You're right this country isn't perfect, far from it, but I had to be any creature in this world, to say I'd rather be one in the UK than any other country is an understatement.

www.2sfg.com/news/company-news/updated-statement-to-the-guardianitv-investigation/

Essex has over 2 million factory farmed animals.

"the law alone is not always strong or detailed enough to ensure that [farm animals] have a good quality of life."

jalima
how do you manage to twist other people's posts to change the meaning
Practice

Herefordshire has over 16 million indoor reared livestock, not allowed to express their normal behaviour. Shropshire has over 14 million.
North Yorkshire has the greatest number of pigs confined, 221,000, with over 7 million livestock confined altogether.
CIWF map.

How do you manage to twist other people's posts to change the meaning?

An amazing skill!

Pathetic, Jalima.
This is about farmed animals and the fact that this government did not want to keep the clause in about animals feeling pain, etc. Not about comparing other EU countries with ours and finding them worse than us.

However EU farmers keep their livestock, they still have a clause that says they are sentient beings. We will not after Brexit. Their governments are still responsible for the laws.
Our government will not be after March 2019.

But that's okay, you throw your ball out of the pram just because you won't admit that you are wrong on this.
I don't have a blinkered view of how animals are kept anywhere.
As well as Viva! I belong to Peta which campaigns about how farm animals are kept in Eastern Europe and has some success at stopping live transport of animals, etc.
CIWF is about animals all over the world, and not just in the EU.
I have signed up to two campaigns today for them.

I can't believe that you don't object to 60% of UK farm animals being mistreated just because some other countries might keep them in worse conditions.

An interesting interactive map here to show you about factory farming in your area.

www.ciwf.org.uk/media/7431377/new-interactive-map-exposes-uk-factory-farming-hotspots.pdf

You can click on it to show the different animals.

Jalima, your figures are only about straw-based outdoor systems, not about the rest.
What about the rest, like those that Viva! have shown?