Animal Rights after the Brexit Repeal Bill

Don't worry, shan't post any more because no-one will ever be able to change your view that everything about Britain is dreadful, nasty and bad and that everything about Continental Europe is wonderful.

Even though I did vote remain, I hope I don't have a blinkered view of the EU.

Mine comes from Viva!, where they have taken their own photos and videos of the cruelty involved.

www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/pigs/we-go-undercover-expose-shocking-cruelty-morrisons-supplier

East Riding Country Pork.
Pigs are supposed to be treated as sentient beings, according to the government and the Tories who voted against it. These animals are supposed to have better rights than they have in the rest of the EU, so we don't need to give them more rights.

Even on your figures, 40% of sows outdoors means that 60% are not.
On straw, not crammed in cages as they are in many other countries.

Of course, we import much of our bacon etc from the Netherlands and Denmark anyway, although I always try to buy British.

The voice of the Guardian is rather biased too which is where a lot of information anti-British farmers seems to come from.

The voice of the pig industry is rather biased, isn't it?

Even on your figures, 40% of sows outdoors means that 60% are not.

www.pig-world.co.uk/news/highlighting-the-differences-how-uk-welfare-standards-compare-with-our-competitors.html

Where are your figures from, Jalima?

www.viva.org.uk/pigs/can-you-trust-the-tractor

www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/our-work/turkeys

10 million turkeys going to be killed this Christmas, every one of them just bred for the Christmas market.
The population is only 66 million!
I know at least 40 vegans or vegetarians who will not be eating any.

Straw-based/outdoor systems
UK – 40% of sows are outdoors, 90% of indoor sows and 60% of finishing pigs are kept on straw, 2-3% of finishers are free range and 0.6% of production is organic.
Sweden – more than 90% of sows and finishers are kept on straw. But just 1% of Swedish pigs are kept outdoors and these are all organic.
Rest of EU, US, Canada, Brazil – very few, if any, pigs are kept outdoors or on straw indoors. Most are kept on slatted floors. Very few organic pigs.

In the whole world, actually, Jalima. They probably have better welfare standards in Africa with the tribesmen than on our pigfarms.

www.viva.org.uk/pigs

Pig farms get the shame of Britain award. About ten farms listed on this link, with photos of how our farmers treat sentient animals.

Of course, none of you buy your pork from such farms, do you?
Yours is all organic, kept in the fields, allowed to play nicely until slaughtered humanely, etc., etc.

Are you concerned about standards of animal husbandry and appalling cruelty to animals in general in the EU or not djen?

Are you as concerned about the way we keep pigs?

www.viva.org.uk/pig-farming-report

Are you vegan?

www.viva.org.uk/resources/video-library/milk

Milk and cheese = veal calves.

It doesn't matter what individuals think on all sides of the House, if the H of C voted against it that would be that, unlike some EU countries who allow horrendous cruelty with no attempts at legislation, - state sponsored cruelty from veal crates to bull fighting is the order of the day, in some cases in the name of tradition. How appalling is that.

Why would it have another vote on fox hunting if it didn't want to bring it back?
It was in the manifesto.

No dj, It promised to have another vote on Fox Hunting, not the same thing at all. Animal welfare within the EU is almost laughable and whether they are sentient or not is, to most EU country completely unimportant especially Spain who comes well up near the top of the list on the cruelty animals level. Their behaviour and lack of compassion is quite disgusting particularly for a so called civilised country. I'm ashamed to have visited this awful country and never will again.

"Some of the Government’s attempts to dismiss the controversy have been overly extreme, apparently in an attempt to write-off the entire discussion. Despite claims about fake news, it’s not definitive why exactly MPs voted against the amendment, or that the Government will meaningfully recognise animals as sentient – instead, it relies on people believing the Government’s claims that it will guarantee protections.

At the same time, many of the reports did miss a very specific but very important detail of what happened. Nobody voted that animals aren’t sentient, because that wasn’t ever up for a vote. Instead, they didn’t vote that they were. A number of stories gave a misleading impression by eliding that distinction.

With all of that out of the way, what you feel about all of this ultimately comes down to the issues above: whether you think it’s important that animal sentience is specifically recognised in law, whether you think the 2006 act goes far enough, and whether you believe the Government that it is going to guarantee similar protections in its own time."

Don't forget that this is the government that promised to bring back fox hunting.

www.independent.co.uk/environment/animal-sentience-brexit-vote-caroline-lucas-michael-gove-truth-fact-argument-a8072071.html

They voted against accepting article 13 amendment into law, which amounts to the same thing. They voted against it being the responsibility of the government to protect animals.

The whole point about article 50 is taking all EU laws into UK law, then deciding in parliamentary committee, which in this case means the whole of the commons, whether to keep certain laws or not.
They decided they did not want parliament to have responsibility for animal sentience. It's not fake news.
The Tories voted against Caroline Lucas's amendment which would have put the onus on parliament to accept that all animals are sentient beings, not just people's pets.

With regard to the above posts: The Independent website has published a clarification stating it had been incorrect to claim MPs had voted to remove the protection from law. What has been referred to elsewhere today as fake news, or
' half a dozen caterpillars making the field ring....with their mportunate chink.'

"In practical terms, not copying across Article 13 of the EU’s Lisbon Treaty won’t make much difference to your average cat or cow. “Animal sentience” is explicitly mentioned in the EU text and absent from the UK’s Animal Welfare Act. But the principle of sentience is implied, and has been for all British animal welfare legislation since 1822.

The big difference is that Article 13 says that governments shall “pay full regard” to animal welfare. UK law places this responsibility on the owner or keeper. This means government could make policy – in agriculture, fisheries or transport, for example – without having to consider animal welfare issues. If Gove’s pro-animal zeal is genuine, then this might not be a problem. But that’s not a guarantee and, in any case, he won’t always be environment secretary."

Yes, it was rather good! Made me smile, and that's saying something. I thought it was wind at first!