Budget? What budget?

They are one of the worst ever -look what austerity has brought us. Did you see the news gg so bloody depressing

The idea that Labour always borrows more, etc., is also an idea made up by the Tories and the right wing press. In actual fact, Labour invariably borrows less than the Conservatives. The data always shows that. Not just that, Labour has always repaid debt more often than the Conservatives, and has always repaid more debt, on average. The trend does not vary however you do the data.

The Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years

If I wanted to watch our politicians answer pub quiz questions then I am sure I would be disappointed that JM refused to be taken away from the detailed answer to the previous question that he was given in order to look up a figure the interviewer could have looked up for himself - it's public knowledge.

Do we really want these interviews to be at the level of a children's spelling bee? Personally I would rather we were employing someone who knows things in enough depth to know were to find the answer to such a simplistic question. Rather that than someone who can repeat things back to me like a six year old repeating their tables.

John McDonnell did not "bankrupt London".

Tellingly, one detail TV interviewers neglect to mention is that John McDonnell is the only front bench MP on both sides of the house who has prior experience of balancing the budget in a major public organisation. He was responsible for controlling the purse strings at the predecessor of the London Assembly. The Greater London Council (GLC) brought in budgets on budget every year.

It's a shame that the shadow chancellor can't say those things without his advisors or his iPad then. Linda Yueh isn't the shadow chancellor and we're not voting for her. John McDonnell has been laughable 3 times in the last couple of days and he certainly has not said that! He's the person you're advocating is in charge of the economy - the fiscal idiot that even Ken Livingstone sacked for bankrupting London.
It's ridiculous appropriating the comments of someone you think is credible and saying 'that's what Labour really means'. I'll believe Labour means what Labour says.

If you watch the Daily Politics, Dominic Raab keeps up today's attack on Labour quoting JM saying that "spending and borrowing pays for itself" over and over and over. He keeps saying it is just not credible, that can't be right, that can't be credible which to me showed he has the economic sense of the nursery.

Turning to Linda Yueh, the economist and not, I would suggest, left-wing or a Labour supporter, Jo Coburn reminded her of what she had said earlier, that perhaps this is exactly what Philip Hammond should have done. He should have thrown away the Red Box and the Red Book in terms of constraint and actually spent a lot more.

Linda Yueh's reply was "I would reconfigure the Red Box. So, one thing the government hasn't done is separate out current spending from capital spending. So what you can do, the only way to raise productivity and it is a big puzzle, but the key thing the bank of England identifies is you have to raise investment. So investment in hard and soft infrastructure, human capital, all of that, if you count that as capital spending you can borrow at very low rates and invest in something which will be paid off in the future and you can separate that from current spending so you don't scare financial markets and I think that is something where he probably could have done a bit more given how dire our productivity prospects are. But it is something that requires reconfiguring how we think entirely, about the deficit."

Linda Yueh went on to say that private firms are not investing, in part because public investment has been slashed to less than 2% of GDP. It used to be over 3% of GDP before the crisis. She commented that we can't have better jobs in the future unless there is more investment in STEM education and technical education. That is why there is a good argument for putting investment in human capital - people - as well as hard and soft infrastructure and that would go a long way without going into the more politically disputed areas such as nationalisation.

This is exactly what Labour has been suggesting we do. You can argue about nationalisation - I would - but I do want a party that understands economics, not a collection of book-keepers, running the country and the Tory party view of this doesn't come anywhere near economics they are still at the coffee pot stage with one for the rent, one for the 'leccy, etc.

I’ve been trying to work out why the NHS is facing such financial pressures and now I know - thanks marieeliz forvexplaining it’s all your neighbours fault. You have reported her I’m sure.

I didn't expect a giveaway budget at all. I think we are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. I just wish this bloody brexit thing would crawl away and die. The people I know in the small business community and larger manufacturers too are terrified of what is to come .

if the Tories are so competent at finance* Marieeliz* can you please explain to me HOW the 800BILLION deficit they inherited after the crash has turned into 1.95trillion in a few short years? They cant afford to even pay the interest on this never mind pay it off! Hardly inspires confidence .

Oh dear!

Did anyone really expect a "Giveaway" budget, get real. That's what the Labour Party do and leave others to try and pay the bill! That's where we are now. Nurse near me off work for months with "bad back" but I have seen her heaving heavy furniture about. No wonder NHS is struggling.

I'm afraid Rebecca Pow is exactly how I see some Tories and the comments reminded me of some we see on here. I think John McDonnell's reply - more in sorrow than in anger - was better than she deserved. Thanks for the link Jen.

Lloyd Russell-Moyle from Btighton Kemptown talking about the budget on politics TV, saying about how much help the homeless need in Brighton, rather than another focus group to see how councils are spending their money.
Very passionate.

My heart sinks when I take a peek at the political threads, the ability of Brexiteers to defend the idiocy of their stance beggars belief. Well here's yet another dire report and prediction from the IFS: average earnings in 2022 likely to be less than in 2008 and the UK is in danger of losing two decades of earnings growth.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42096806

When you've read that, a bit of light relief - the UK won't allowed to enter the competition to host the European Capital of Culture in 2023.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42097692

Are we surprised? Apparently the government are! I await the Pollyanna brigade tripping down the road to lalaland.

I'd watch it if McDonnell was on. I'd even buy popcorn.

3 videos on this link to watch.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/11/23/watch-mcdonnell-destroy-tories-after-they-tell-poverty-stricken-brits-youve-never-had-it-so-good/

Mark Steel says it all. Question Time will be interesting tonight. I hope there's someone as good as he is on the programme.

gilly you need to go to Rock in Cornwall. Multi-million £ houses, perhaps occupied for 2 weeks a year. Not in itself significant, but local people were pushed out years ago, as it has had an inflationary effect on house prices throughout the area.

Sarahellenwhitney, is that a north-south divide?
Up here oaks grow from acorns.

A big fat tax on second homes could be a start, plus additional council taxes (or a new under-occupation tax) for homes left unoccupied for great lengths of times.

I have a lot of sympathy with people who live in those desirable areas where the very rich buy up the properties as second homes sarahellenwhitney Pushing the prices up sky high and leaving the properties empty for months on end.

There is a very picturesque village in Northumberland popular with tourists. When a new estate was built a few years ago there were queues of people waiting to pay deposits. Most from way out of the area. The poor locals couldn't afford them. The place is like a ghost town in the winter as there are only a handful of actual owner occupiers.

I'm not as kind Gilly. I think they just don't understand or care and as long as the North doesn't make too many waves they won't. I think they may just be beginning to hear the rise in the murmuring.

gillybob
Well of course no one wants to see the return of outside loos and gaslight but sense is required here and Rome wasn't built in a day and this reduction of stamp duty for first time buyers is a step forward not backward.
For many, sacrifices have to be made getting on the property ladder and in my area it is made extremely hard due to the greed of those coming from major cities buying up properties for second homes /holiday lets leaving them empty in many cases for three four months at a time.Not only from cities are these buyers but locals jumping on the band waggon.The government need to come down hard on local authorities who sit back and do sweet*****.
We cannot tell people what to do with their money, which is an on going argument in my local, but there must be ways to free up these properties to young locals looking to purchase for the first time and I mean locals or those who have to move with their job. An incentive to the vendor, I have my own ideas on this, but will ensure he does not lose out on his sale and will put a stop to any idea of upping his price which many doom and gloomers' believe to be inevitable with the reduction of stamp duty.

Agree with you GGM2 successive governments seem to have forgotten "we" exist.

House prices are relative to wages/economy. Rubbish wages up here as there are not enough well paid jobs. This in turn equals low house prices (and values for those of us who will need to sell in order to retire) , that most young people still can't afford.

WII the budget was never twice yearly. We had got to the point where we had a Spring Budget and an Autumn Statement. It has now been decided, so there is enough time between budget and the year end/beginning in April, to reverse these.

We will have the Budget - still only once a year - in the Autumn. This was the first of these. So far the chancellor has said we will have "a single major fiscal event each year" so hopefully there will be no spring statement but who knows.

Can a brexiter please enlighten me how the Hades, now that it is becoming clear the devastation being caused to our economy any of it is worth it?

Whitewave, all that will happen is when they realise the result of their small majority - it is not "the country" as people keep saying but just a minority of those in the country - they will blame anyone and everyone else.