I see the EU Remainers' PROJECT FEAR is alive and well.

Thanks; I thought that was the case.

The BBC looked at the Leave leaflet recently. Definitely no mention of single market. But to be fair, I think Cameron mentioned it in a speech. But that could have been seen as Project Fear!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36014941

I distinctly remember one Conservative being interviewed saying there is absolutely no way we would even consider leaving the Single market - that it would be folly. Must look it up again.

And now David Davis tells Ferrari on LBC : I really do not need to be very clever to do this job' - no Sherlock Barnier ont he other hand is immensely intelligent and will make mincemeat of him- glasses on, glasses off, glasses on, glasses off - his glasses are his Pinocchio nose.

So on Marr yesterday Davis says the Guarantees on the NI border were not legally binding until a final deal is signed.

Today Davis says on LBC that it will be honoured whatever happens.

Is it incompetence or deliberate fudging?

The barrister, David Allen Green, says that it isn't legally binding, there is no redress through the courts if it is broken, but it is politically binding (in the same way that the referendum has been regarded). And that if we reneged on the Agreement who would trust us in other negotiations (such as trade negs.)

Thanks, that makes sense Maizie. Why didn't Davis explain it like that? He'd rather leave it ambiguous I guess.

It should be seen as a gentlemen’s Agreement. I assume it still means something these days.

Nothing would surprise me with this lot, not many if any gentlemen between them

Destructive ambiguity?

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/12/11/perfidious/

David Davis?

Ah yes, it was David Hannan- and several others- who said at the time that there was NO question of leaving the single market - as clear as could be:

youtu.be/0xGt3QmRSZY

As for Farage and others talking about Switzerland and Norway- they were either totally ill informed about the conditions of their reciprocal deal- or LYING again.

Dan Hannan

Leaving the European Union will cost the British economy £105 billion over ten years, worth £1,585 for each member of the population, a report by the RAND Corporation released today has found.

They also say the impact of a UK-US free trade agreement would be “trivial” compared to the damage the British economy would sustain through a hard Brexit.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/12/no-deal-brexit-cost-everyone-uk-1585-us-thinktank

Has anyone yet seen a really positive forecast of how things should pan out after Brexit?

Well, there's always the 'Economists for Leave' (or whatever they call themselves now) but even they foresaw an end to UK manufacturing.

Oh that's alright then. Only an end to manufacturing.
I'm sure our grandchildren will all get lucrative jobs (after university) in coffee shops, delivering Amazon parcels, delivering takeaways, or driving taxis (until autonomous cars make driving redundant) to pay the exhorbitant rent on their bedsits and flats.

There is no positive outcome. Brexiters can’t think of a single thing.

That is what I believe but I live in hope that we are proved wrong!
Looking at the initial agreement ( if you can call it that) it is taking away rights of UK citizens in EU, however Verhofstadt has started talking again about allowing individual EU citizenship to people.

I’ve just been looking at the US and the way they produce their meat

So beef - breed in huge warehouses, where the cattle never see the light of day. They are regularly injected with growth hormone for quicker turnover and of course because of the appalling conditions antibiotics are essential.

Aargh!

Contrast that with a farm in the UK which is totally organic, no growth hormones at all or antibiotics unless the cow is ill. Animals entirely grass fed which means of course the fat will have that lovely yellow hue. Reared to slaughter at a much slower pace, and each animal treated with respect and care. Slaughter is made as stress free as it possibly can.

Of course there is also a growing argument that shows very convincingly that beef production etc is contributing vastly to soil degradation and global warming, with suggestion that a tax on such production should be considered.

Maybe we should all be learning a few more veggie recipes to help the situation.
Interesting piece I saw on Countryfile where a pig farmer is renting fields from a farmer and every two years he moves his site to different fields on the farm the farmer then uses the recently nourished fields for growing crops and the pig farmer just used new fields. Said it worked very well for both of them - that really is rotation at work.

Interesting report

Published on Tuesday, December 12, 2017
Alarm at EU warning to UK airlines post-Brexit

The EU Commission has confirmed fears that UK airlines will lose their automatic right to fly to the European Union post-Brexit.

It said for a carrier to obtain and keep an EU operating licence and benefit from intra-EU air traffic lights it must have its principle place of business within the EU and be majority owned and effectively controlled by EU member states and/or EU nationals.

The British Airline Pilots' Association said the announcement by the EU Directorate-General for Mobility and Transport was 'cause for great concern'.

The notice said: "As of the withdrawal date, the operating licences granted to airlines by the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority will no longer be valid EU operating licences.

"In order to continue benefitting from the freedoms of establishment and to provide air services within the EU internal market as of the withdrawal date, air carriers are advised to consider any measure required to ensure that the conditions for holding an EU operating licence are complied with in all circumstances."

The notice made it clear that UK airlines will no longer have the right to fly between the UK and Europe post-Brexit. "Air carriers of the United Kingdom will no longer enjoy traffic rights under any air transport agreement to which the Union is a party, be it to or from the territory of the United Kingdom, be it to or from the territory of any of the EU Member States.

"Air carriers of the United Kingdom will no longer have access to designation/traffic rights so far available under the bilateral air transport agreements between EU Member States and a third country on account of the principle of EU designation accepted by the third country concerned."

It also warned that non-EU airlines will also lose their right to operate services to and from the UK that were covered by an EU air transport agreement.

BALPA general secretary, Brian Strutton, said: "Here it is in black and white from the EU Commission - UK flights to the EU will be grounded in March 2019 should no agreement be reached.

"We need the UK Government to sort air traffic rights now. Once again, no deal is not an option."

And the aerospace industry is only one of the important sectors of the economy which DD and his brexit dept cannot be bothered to protect. No point in doing sectoral analysis, impact studies or whatever you want to call them, we (the UK government) haven't got a clue but who cares, it's all guesswork, it doesn't matter how bad it might turn out to be. It's "the will of the people"

We have got to put a stop to this madness.

All dismissed as scaremongering when people in the industry warned about this - Michael O'Leary warned about it ages ago when he was on Question time and he was dismissed as just trying to frighten people to protect his company.

Presumably he'll be okay, being registerd in Ireland?

I think it is to do where the aircraft are registered too - he seemed to think it would be a problem if he remained with Stansted as his main hub for Europe. I have seen him since saying many aircraft will be grounded.

I imagine Ryanair is safe in Ireland.
Easyjet is in the process of moving some of the company to Austria because of Brexit.
I don't think Virgin Atlantic is moving from Crawley (one of my daughters works for them) but they don't fly to Europe under the Virgin name.