The Irish question

Don’t you !!, I’m not sure there is a single government in our past recent history that would have done it any worse.

Did anyone hear Jonathan Powell (Good Friday negotiator) on R4 Today?
He said diplomatic negotiations always depend on "constructive ambiguity" meaning it can be interpreted loosely to mean different things to different interest groups. The DUP didn't initially understand the "ambiguities" of the NI border arrangements that were almost agreed on Monday.
He says the only solution is a customs union for the whole of UK.

I'm puzzled that TM went to Brussels without, it seems, the DUP being fully au fait. Makes you wonder how politics works, doesn't it?

I don't think that the current situation is part of politics' 'normal way of working' Blinko

I don't thik the EU needs to 'punish' us as an example to the others, Nfk. Apart from the fact that this is language of the playground and we're dealing with a very grownup situation here, I haven't seen any signs that the rest of the EU countries seriously want to leave the biggest and most frictionless trading bloc in the world, because it would be economically disadvantageous, and, politically, they are sufficiently proud of their independence, nationalities and cultures to firmly knock on the head the notion of an EU Superstate.

Truth of matter is that Davis is an incompetent waste of space and the May scuppered the process when she started drawing red lines 15 months ago. No clear plan agreed about what they wanted to achieve before she triggered Article 50 and started the clock ticking. No idea how they are going to reconcile the Irish border with the Good Friday agreement requirements. And they don't seem to have even begun to think about immigration issues across a "frictionless border". The frictionless is about goods. Canada and USA border is "frictionless" but they still have full immigration processes I gather. So how would that reconcile with the principal that there should be no infrastructure at the border. Not to mention the fact that there are so small roads. How could all this work ye brexit enthusiasts? And is David ignoring this on purpose or because he is so stupid and arrogant?

I did hear that part of Today Mostly and, it seems, 'constructive ambiguity' is the phrase that is doing the rounds at the moment. A phrase that everyone can apply their own meaning to and they all know this is what is being done - except the DUP because someone forgot to tell them. Unfortunately these things then unravel as they already have in this case.

The Irish problem brings this to a head. There is only the binary choice whatever the fantasies of the Brexitites. You either have a hard boarder or you don't have a hard boarder; constructive ambiguity does not cover this. The easiest thing would be to agree to go into the transitional period while still in the single market – but isn't that what the LP have suggested?

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/12/06/for-theresa-may-its-decision-time-and-theres-no-indication-she-has-a-clue-what-to-do/

This is interesting, jura.

www.ft.com/content/2d30482c-da7e-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482
It's about the border between Switzerland and France.

Won't let me access it, sorry.

Sorry, I got onto it from www.infacts.org
It was about the two different ways of hiring a car when you get off the plane and what happens if you want to drive into France.

All the other political parties in NI are demanding a say.

Managed to get it thanks DJ - no time now to go through it point by point, but it is full of rubbish, sorry to say.

They do check passports if they choose to or have any suspicions (and that include very superficial targetting, a piercing, dreads, or anyone a bit more sun-tanned ...), white vans, etc. And they do have tarifs - you can only get 1 kg of meat per person over the border tarif free, and nothing over the price of 300 CHF.

I live 500 metres from the French border, and several neighbours are customs' officers.

Oh dear, that shot that fact down in flames.

[gasp] that could constitute a racist remark jura

The actual article was in the Financial Times, that bastion of rightwing truthfulness.
The reason I said it was for jura was so she could say whether it was truthful or what I often suspect from the FT, a load of rubbish.

jura2
*^a bit more Sun tanned^
You've kept that view of how you think of black or Asian people well hidden. The cats out of the bag now.

Well, the ‘Irish Problem’ has now been solved
So the end of this thread........?

It has been solved by giving NI preferential treatment to the rest of the UK. I doubt whether you could call the Irish problem - solved - more like brushed back under the carpet after having £billions thrown at it.

But we are all going to get the same treatment, suzied.
Does that mean per head of population, so we all get a few billions thrown at us?

Yep! That problem has been well and truly kicked down the road

What - each of us?
Brings a new meaning to National Lottery

I am sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong, but as I understand the agreement, there will be no hard border between Ireland and NI and so any EU citizen, who has taken advantage of her/his freedom of movement rights and travelled to Ireland, can then progress to NI. As there is no border between NI and the rest of the UK there would be no problem for said EU citizen to enter England, Scotland or Wales. I am perfectly OK with this but is it OK with the leavers?

Well we’re not all going to get the same treatment, as anyone born in NI can get British citizenship but can also get Irish citizenship and therefore the benefits of being an EU citizen.

Solved Lemongrove- now I do have to wonder again , are you really really naïve or ... something else. I don't think it is either you, or Mrs May- who will decide it it is solved or not- that is for sure.