The Irish question

Hilary Benn going to be discussing the problem of the border on Daily Politics.

I found this interesting thread about the border situation on Mumsmet yesterday . I think it's worth reading because many of the contributors are Irish, both from NI and ROI, so they are very directly concerned and much more knowledgeable than us about the whole topic.

They don't seem to hold out much hope of a solution.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border

I agree with Grumppa - both campaigns were pretty unenlightening but, instead of relying on high profile/high status people like Bob Geldof, Richard Branson and Barack Obama (the interventions of whom actually got a lot of people's backs up), the Remain team could have done so much more to warn people of the serious practical issues around leaving the EU, and been far more probing as to whether those in the Leave camp were properly prepared to carry out an orderly exit.

Why did nobody mention the "divorce" bill and the issues surrounding Ireland and Gibraltar, along with many other real and unavoidable problems that would arise.

We now hear of thousands of people being recruited to sort out the contractual/legal issues - and it has been said that thousands more civil servants will be needed after we leave the EU to take on duties which had previously been performed by EU departments, and also that substantial increases in civil servants will arise as a result of leaving, e.g.customs officials.

The issue of EU immigration seemed to focus almost entirely on "joint benefits", more particularly that UK citizens would find it much harder to work and travel in Europe if we were to leave. There wasn't much said about our huge reliance on EU workers and the very real likelihood of their sudden exodus creating major problems in many areas of employment. Or of the likely reluctance of any other EU workers to want to come to a country where they face all sorts of bureaucratic obstacles and ongoing feelings of insecurity and being unwelcome.

Why did the Daily Politics not even mention the free movement of people in relation to the Irish border?

As usual the BBC give JRM a very easy ridel

I'm sure that the BBC must have been warned off showing their Remain colours in the last year.
After the referendum the BBC seemed shocked and unbelieving at the result, but in recent months, they seem not to press hard with questions about Brexit. Some, like John Humphreys and Dimbleby seem blatantly pro Brexit. Nick Robinson definitely tows the Tory line.
Andrew Marr doesn't seem to question blatant Brexit lies as in the recent James Dyson interview.
I'm afraid I don't think of the BBC as an impartial source of news any more.

As many Leavers seem convinced that the BBC is treacherously pro Remain it's a bit of a conundrum...

I really can't see that at all...

I can’t see any bias in the BBC either way about the referendum or the negotiations.

I see Sky is reporting that the Irish government has been told to ignore Johnson by the FO. Not sure what his point is really.

I do wonder how far this unstable government will go in allowing the tail to wag the dog. DUP likes to think it is calling the shots.

the massive problem is - with the GVT in such a weak position- they probably are ...

Did you see Michael Portillo on the Andrew Neil prog last night? He didn't see the Irish border problem as a problem at all. He said we should do nothing and if the EU want a border there they can instigate it themselves.

Then he misses the point entirely.

whitewave - do you mean because trade talks can't go ahead until the Irish border question is settled? I did wonder about that. Or do you mean something different?

No I’m saying that he has entirely overlooked the Good Friday Agreement

And of course we must not forget that we were told in no uncertain terms that there would never need to be a border by the leave campaign. Anything else they declared was project fear.

I wonder when the Irish question will be on the OpenBritain Advent calendar.

An excellent article by Ian Dunt.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/11/27/irish-border-nationalist-brexit-rhetoric-gets-ugly

Yes! Undoubtedly portillo and other of his kind are echoing trump in the insistence that Ireland pays for something they never wanted.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/ireland-brexit

Even more experts!

Thank you for directing us to the mumsnet thread MaizieD www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border.

What is quite striking is that there are very few mumsnetters who admit to voting leave, and even those that do , don't seem to have an answer to the Irish question.

I know that younger folk voted Remain in larger numbers than oldies did, and perhaps mumsnetters are not a random cross section of young parents, but it is so noticeable that many of them feel angry and even despairing about the brexit vote. They feel that their children are being cheated of the opportunities which the EU gave us.

As you say many of these posters live or have lived in Ireland, (either or both parts) and well understand the dangers presented by a return to a hard border. I also notice that this thread has filled up very quickly. I wonder what has to happen for the whole brexit nonsense to just stop.

I think I've got it!

What..... if.....Eire.....joins.....the......UK!

That would give an united Ireland which they want, the North stays in the UK which they want and No border!!

Solved!

Sounds easy hey !

Now where were you during your history lessons - or do you actually believe in miracles and that pigs can and do fly - honestly

We love the Irish (apart from a few) but Ireland would never agree (and quite right too!)

Was that tongue in cheek nfk?