The Irish question

Some may not realise that Smithy!

So Brussels has formally announced that Ireland will get the final veto - no surprises there. Sinn Fein has announced that if the Tories prioritise the DUP over the Northern Irish will of the people, then Ireland should use the veto.

No surprises there either. Pity Sinn Fein doesn’t put principles of a life time aside and threaten to take their seats in Westminster.

Brussels will defend Ireland; they look after their own. Why should they take our side against them? It must be nice to belong to a huge organisation that puts your interests first. Maybe we should join something like that one day...

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-donald-tusk-ireland-uk-offer-eu-britain-leo-varadkar-a8087556.html

Sounds fair to me.

I fear that the hatred between Sinn Fein and the DUP which simmers away under the surface will prevent any compromise or positivity to keep any sort of open border. It'll be all or nothing. We'll come away with a very hard Brexit and a very hard border or the whole leaving exercise will go t*ts up.

Personally I hadn't expected that Brexit would actually happen. Like most I was surprised that the vote went the way it did, I'd only hoped that it'd make the EU more reasonable and take on board Mr Cameron's proposals. I then expected the vote to have been taken as a recommendation and was amazed when it was taken seriously ( I do wonder if there's a hidden agenda). I now fear that the EU will still win and we will be forced to stay in with dire consequences. We will be made to pay for our disobedience to keep the other countries in line. We are after all, the only country that's really strong enough to make a stand. I wonder how many, all those years ago, who voted to join the Common Market realised what they were committing us to.

If anyone is interested Brussels has produced an excellent document relating to NI and Brexit. It is a detailed and a good analysis of the issues.

Something our lot do not have even considered until recently and even now are clearly in a total muddle, especially with the DUP breathing down their necks .

Lets hope that Brussels have a workable solution as well then. Bet not.

nfk they never wanted to be in that position, it was the misguided vote in the U.K. that has put us into the position of threatening peace and stability in Ireland. I can’t see how on earth the onus should be on Brussels to come with a solution.

Of course this is something that the government should have addressed before the referendum took place, and certainly as a priority since, but no. Arrogance and ignorance and thinking that the 58 pieces of non-existent fag paper would be sufficient.

I know they never wanted to be in that position, I had noticed. I was just asking if they had any constructive solutions. It's the constant "It's your fault, you started it" playground mentality which makes me despair. Messes happen. We shouldn't have entered an agreement in the first place with no workable get-out clause. Blaming and passing the buck doesn't solve any problems. Coming together and compromise does.

If you read the documents you will see a fine analyses of the issues and potential solutions. What has our rabble come up with? Bugger all of any use. Utter incompetence.

Of course we didn't realise what we were letting ourselves into all those years ago with enthusiasm else we, and almost certainly our parents, would NEVER have entertained joining. We were duped plain and simple, which makes feeling the way some of us now do, very sad and very let down. If only we could have been asked when further integration was being considered! But of course we might have said No, which would have spoilt the now obvious end plan! Ever been had?!!

Royal 'we', nellie ?

I have absolutely no regrets about my Remain vote in 1975 and am not in the least bit afraid of what the EU has become.

I am, though, in mortal fear of what the UK has become.

I just wonder how many other people voted "Leave", not because they actually wanted to see the UK leave the EU, but just to make a point, and are shocked at the result, like NfkDumpling who now tells us:

"Personally I hadn't expected that Brexit would actually happen. Like most I was surprised that the vote went the way it did, I'd only hoped that it'd make the EU more reasonable and take on board Mr Cameron's proposals. I then expected the vote to have been taken as a recommendation and was amazed when it was taken seriously"

I have seen it suggested that the sensible thing to have done after the Leave vote would have been to have gone back to the EU and used the vote as a negotiating point for reform.

But, of course, Cameron had already painted the government into a corner by promising to 'respect the result' and turned tail and fled once his bluff had been called.

Figure of speech MasieD, nothing more sinister than that!

Royal 'we', nellie ?

Also 'Royal' our parents, as in our parents, would NEVER have entertained joining.

I don't think anyone on here ever even met mine, let alone knew their views on the EU.

No regrets here about Leaving the EU, best decision ever!

We have not left lemon - not yet ...

But please, as much as I respect your views- please do give us ONE, just one, positive fact/ outcome so far of the Leave decision. Just one reason why you feel it was the best decision ever - not feelings, not views - fact. Thank you.

lemon can’t jura because she is clueless

Don't be like that Whitewave. Lemon isn't clueless, that was very rude.

Actually I don't regret voting to leave and would do so again. I still think it'll be the best thing in the long run. I just don't have any confidence that it will actually happen. I fear we've been well and truly trapped in a tangled ill run, badly organised, money wasting black hole which will eventually implode on itself.

Lemon is always saying she doesn't know what to do and we should just leave them all to get on with it.
That sounds like she is saying she is clueless to me.
You don't regret voting to leave and would do it again, even though you thought the vote would be to remain, and you don't know what to do either.
So it's the fault of brexiteers that we are in this mess, and they don't know what to do to get us out of it, whether in government or out?
When you even have David Davis saying he will resign you know we really are in the proverbial.

Does anyone on here know exactly what to do - or if they think they do, how to go about it? If we all knew exactly what to do we would be doing it wouldn't we?

It's all very well armchair pundits saying what ought to be done - getting things done in the real world is another matter altogether.

Yes. Tell everybody the truth about Brexit and stay in the EU.
That will solve the problem.

Do you think they read Gransnet?