Party leaders

Angela Raynor (shadow education) is quoted this morning as saying she won't sign her loyalty to JC as Momentum are suggesting. She's one of the good young Labour MP's from a more traditional Labour background than some. She says she will represent her constituents and vote with her conscience. Good enough.

A couple of sensible and well thought through posts gg

Of course the Twenty-two committee has more power than momentum; they are MPs. They can vote down or threaten to vote down what the government wants to do if they don't like it. I find it anti-democratic. Momentum members, on the other hand, are prepared to put their money and their energies into getting Labour members into Parliament as MPs - where they will have no influence over them whatsoever. It is not unreasonable to question what the values are of these members of the public before they support them in there efforts to become or return as MPs.

I realise I feel much the same. As a Social Democrat I do not see myself as a socialist (very different beast) but I do support what the LP is putting forward at the moment. However, if they ceased to major on social issues I would not necessarily continue to consider voting for them or supporting them in any way and I might well write to my local LP candidate asking questions about what they support. The members of Momentum have just the same democratic right to do that in my opinion.

Where did the idea come from that the current LP is the 'far-left' other than from the leftovers of the 'Reds under the Beds era.

The policies of the LP are not as 'far-left' as Norway and I don't hear the right-wing papers or the far right in the Conservative Party calling Norway 'far-left'. Social democracy should not be feared. It is really rather sad that people who joined and became MPs for the LP are now not recruiting people with their view of socialism (although I seem to remember they are a little allergic to that word) but are undermining the party they belong to. Their attitude seems lazy, undemocratic and show a sense of entitlement.

So you made an error or lied Jen?

Actually, you are right, they did change it, but you still knew that you had to be a member of the labour party to join momentum because you joined in on debates on here to call it a party within a party.
If the members are a party within a party, they must be members of the outside party as well.
In fact POGS put it in capital letters for you and others to join in on slagging off Momentum a few times.

"4 weeks after JC was elected, Momentum was formed, to try to appeal to the very grass roots that JC was talking about. It's constitution is to support the LP, and in order to become a member of Momentum you must also be a member of the LP."

From a thread started by whitewave, which you joined in, Annie.
That was from the OP.
Momentum right from the start said that in order to be a member you also had to be a member of the Labour party.
They did not change their constitution at all.

I did not tell I lie I didn't know they had changed their rules this year, I fully accept I made an error but withdraw your accusation that I told lies.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/10/momentum-shakeup-will-force-members-to-join-labour

I find it very odd that people are so willing to post about how dreadful Momentum is and yet don't know simple things like who can be a member. Makes you think that most of what they say is actually just made up and based on wild imaginings.

If I wanted to move that far left I may as well join the Communist Party, no thank you , I will leave it to the Corbyn fanatics

Just in case you want to join, Annie.

join.peoplesmomentum.com/

And you have to be a Labour party member.

If you don't know about Momentum why make a silly statement about them?
You could have found out the same way I did, instead of telling lies about the group.

Thanks trish us far lefters don’t know a lot do we

Yes a Labour Party member, why would I know about Momentum, I leave that for the far left

Thanks, trisher. I thought I'd read it somewhere.

You DO have to be a member of the Labour party to join
^WHO IS ELIGIBLE TO JOIN MOMENTUM?
Anyone is eligible for Momentum membership provided they meet the following criteria:

Aged 14 or over
Is a member of the Labour Party and no other political party nor an organisation disallowed by the National Coordination Group
Agrees to be bound by the rules of Momentum, including its code of ethics.^
I would have thought you would have known this Annie being such a Labour supporter.

Well meaning activists..... yes, right!

You do not have to be a L P member to join Momentum

dj I’m sure you can be a member of Momentum and not a LP member, but I may be wrong. It is probably easy to find out.

pogs not at the moment but Maybot has had her orders and is intent on stripping the local Tory party from its role in candidate selection. I suspect that the 1922 will loom larg3 in election once that role has been taken back to Westminster

"Interestingly this brings us back to the point of the Momentum quest for 'candidates' who will if elected become members of the Parliamentary Labour Party to sign up to what can only be called a sort of ' Oath of Alliegence ' to Momentum and Jeremy for Leader ."

The 1922 Committee does not ask anybody / could not ask any potential 'candidates' to sign up to a 'loyalty test' to Theresa May for Leader or to ' Commit to the following standards, which follow on from the 1922 Committee code of Ethics' .

As for your post which says " they quietly fuck shit up for the British people" perhaps we have a difference of opinion as to who and what we consider to do that.

I thought only Labour party members could join Momentum anyway. Some of you seem to suggest it's the other way round.

Some well meaning activists

Of course it is POGS and it has no hidden agenda and isn't responsible for much of the mess we are now in. On the other hand

It would be hard to exaggerate the role of the '22 executive in Britain leaving the EU. When Cameron agreed to a EU referendum in January 2013, it was to unite the dissident backbenches and see off potential challenges to his authority; challenges that would have been led by the 1922 executive, almost all of whom are staunch Europhobes.
When they're not leading us into another recession, the '22 get to decide the small matter of who will be our next Prime Minister. May was only confirmed as Tory leader after Brady consulted with the 1922 membership.
While they're still a way off Bullingdon Club levels of public notoriety, the '22 are far more obnoxious. An assortment of men in wife-bought navy-and-grey suits, they quietly fuck shit up for the British people from the comfort of Westminster private dining rooms and expansive Thamesside offices. They're the most powerful group of politicians you've never heard of. And if you still don't care about them, that's fine. But know this for absolute certain: unless you're a fellow Brexit-supporting millionaire with a "normal" family life, they definitely won't care about you, either.

Still let's all be afraid of a group of well meaning activists and ignore the elephant in the room.

So at last count there were approx. 600000 Labour Party members.

Each of those can vote for a Labour Party candidate.

At last count there were approx. 31000 Momentum members.

If they are also Labour Party members they can vote for a Labour Party candidate.

To suggest that they pose an existential threat to the Labour Party is stretching credulity.