MPs vote decisively with the government. No second referendum.

I think that in the long term trickle down has worked and still is doing on a global scale. I also think (factually, not excusing) there will always be "down and outs" because all human endeavours are imperfect so, try as we might, the system doesn't cover some "down and outs", as lemon said.

•Rough Sleepers 4142 - 9000 [Crisis]
•Statutorily Homeless 58,710 households (about 130000 people) [DCLG]
•In Temporary Accommodation, 77000 households (including 128,000 children) [Shelter]
•Concealed Homeless (eg. Sofa Surfers), 3.52 million [Crisis]

So that makes our figures okay, does it, primrose?

I thought we were all about taking back control.
That means owning up to our own homeless, and doing something about it, not saying that Germany's figures are similar.

You don’t understand a drug users life durhamjen
What changes in government policy do you want?
Giving a user a home and money wouldn’t work, the money would all go on drugs.
The same with a person with mental health problems, and they would be back on the streets.It’s very complicated.
More small units of social housing would help some, and I would like that to happen.
Asking me to comment on the man who died in Birmingham is stupid btw and rough sleepers now and then do die on the street or in woods, it’s awful, but we don’t know what help had been offered or if they died from drug related causes or exactly what.
I think we need to know what we are dealing with first to address all the problems.

Homelessness has risen in the UK, yes, but it has in all other EU countries too. Who is getting it right? It's a massive problem in Germany, where there are 420,000 homeless. Including refugees, they have 860,000 people who are homeless.

Sentiment won't help those people?
No, changes in government policy will, thogh, which is what I want.
Trickle down doesn't work; trickle-down economy is sentimental. Bottom up, giving people homes to live in and money to spend on their heating and food gets the economy working.
That's not sentiment. That's hard fact, that everyone but you seems to recognise.

While the government is busy counting, rough sleepers are dying.
Any comment on the one who died in a doorway last week near the Bullring, lemon?

Who are these rough sleepers, leaving EU and illegals out, mostly men who are on drugs (spice) and alcoholics. There are no families with children sleeping rough. Obviously I feel sorry for some of them especially ex servicemen and they should be helped.

I think we should be ashamed of the number of rough sleepers though, lemongrove. Whatever the underlying causes, we have somehow failed people, whether by cuts to mental health service provision or social services or lack of affordable housing. The Salvation Army used to manage all that was necessary in this town, but they can't cope with the scale of the problem now.

durhamjen sentiment won’t help those people.
No idea who Adam Hills is, but I would say define ‘in poverty’.
There is a world of difference to be on the streets and being hard up.

Because there are more rough sleepers doesn’t mean that we should be ‘ashamed’, it need to be established why there are more first, and second what can be done.I believe there is a body that has been set up to look into this very question.
Churches and charities have always been either a stop gap for people enduring hard times ( like food banks are) or for some permanent rough sleepers, their lifeline, because of the way that they live.
Building more small social houses and flats will help with some, no doubt, but for others will never be the answer because of chaotic or drug user lifestyles, or for those with mental health problems.
Simply giving money to them won’t help either, which is why charities urge not to give them money on the street.
It’s a huge problem, and needs proper investigation and hopefully will get that soon.

I'm proud of many things in this country, but that doesn't blind me to others that make me ashamed. Yes, I'm proud that ordinary people are so charitable and do so much for people in need. But in this very wealthy country, it shouldn't be necessary. We had a fantastic local church-based group helping the homeless and vulnerable in this area until last month. They have now lost their funding, and though the food bank they ran will continue, other support services they provided have had to stop. The saddest aspect of all this is that until the last few years, this group didn't exist as we didn't have significant numbers of people who needed their support. Now we do. The number of rough sleepers in this country is something we should all be ashamed of. I don't think the government figures Wilma quotes, bad as they are, give the full picture, though it'll be interesting to see this year's. I can't imagine how they're collected anyway. My own eyes tell me that we have a huge problem that is getting worse.

Well said Lemongrove I'm proud of Britain, I've travelled extensively in Europe and will continue to after Brexit and apart from weather being better in some EU countries you can't beat the UK.
Wilmaknickersfit that's still over 1000 who should be sent home.

For god's sake, lemon, are you for real?
We are the sixth richest country in the world and we should be grateful that there are charities and churches to help those who are destitute. Really?

Sorry, but it's people who say things like that who make me feel angry and ashamed to be associated with them.

I've just been watching The Last Leg. The whole audience brought in food for foodbanks.
They suggested everyone watching should take any food they can spare to the foodbanks tomorrow, so people can have enough food for over Christmas.
Those are the sort of people who give me hope.

Adam Hills, the host, said that the number of people who are in poverty in this country is nearly the whole population of New Zealand.
That's a frightening statistic.

ninny I do not have my head in the sand. Will you believe the government's own annual statistics?

Rough sleepers in England (Autumn 2016) -

714 (17%) of rough sleepers were EU nationals from outside the UK.
194 (5%) of rough sleepers were from outside the EU.
(2016 was the first year nationality was collected).

The autumn 2016 total number of rough sleepers is 4,134. This is up 565 (16%) from the autumn 2015 total of 3,569.

The number of rough sleepers has increased by 3% in London and 21% in the rest of England since autumn 2015.

London had 964 rough sleepers in autumn 2016, which is 23% of the England total. This is down from 26% of the England total in autumn 2015.

This year's statistics are due out next month.

Yes Day6 there is certainly a pattern on GN threads.

Oh durhamjen really!
You spend your life being ‘angry and ashamed’ of your own country, I can think of so many countries where that really applies and wonder if you realise sometimes how good (for most of the population )the UK really is?
No country on earth is Paradise for all, and never will be.
Where bureaucracy sometimes fails, charities and churches pick up and always have done, and thank goodness for that.
We are a very good society here, and testament to that is how many people actually want to live here.

NOT TRUE,NINNY.
Look at the facts.

So true Day6.
There's none so blind as those who will not see.

Yes, and the reason it looks so low now is because the government changed the way statistics are collected, and the way homeless are counted.

Did you watch Tonight last night, Hungry, Homeless and on Benefits?
There was a 64 year old woman who had had her benefits taken away and told to get a job.
Her husband had recently died, and she said she felt like she ought to join him. If it wasn't for friends, she probably would have done. She had been moved off disability benefits and given £69 to live on for a fortnight.
There were two mothers with young families, the mothers in tears.
One was living in temporary accommodation, with three young children, mould on the walls, all the kids with chest infections.
The other was determined not to be moved out of the home she was in, but had been moved onto universal benefit. She had applied for a loan, but would not have been given enough to cover her rent and would have had to spend the next year paying back £72 a month, so she decided to borrow from family and friends.
Yesterday there was an article by Edwina Currie saying that Britain's moneymakers need our love.
No they don't!
These families need our love, along with the single men living in doorways in Liverpool who were on the programme.

Grown women crying on television because they don't know if they'll be able to keep their families together need our love.
Men sleeping in doorways who feel sorry enough for younger men thatn themselves, who go and get out of date food from shops to share round after they have closed are the ones who need our love.

Once more I feel angry and ashamed of this country.

fullfact.org/economy/pmqs-housing-zero-hours-contracts-nhs-funding/

Interesting that it declined during the labour period and rises during the Tories reign of terror

Once again you are making it up, Day6.

DJ - In the 80s, 'cardboard box cities' were a familiar sight. Over the years, things improved.

And got massively worse under Labour's last watch early this century when an open door immigration policy and an inability to deal with asylum seekers and economic migrants was a scenario which unfolded. We now reap the whirlwind - the consequences of that policy which the succeeding government had to shoulder.

It is unpalatable to you but the make-up of the population in most large cities changed. Immigration brought many benefits but it also created a lot of problems which were not dealt with at the time. David Blunkett, whilst inviting all comers to take up residence in the UK, forgot to build more homes, schools, hospitals, clinics, social centres, roads etc, etc etc.

It was like having a 4 berth caravan and inviting a coach load of tourists to sleep in it every night for the foreseeable future.

It's a pattern YOU made up, though, Day6.

Nope. Transference won't wash DJ I think we've seen through that ploy too.

durhamjen
I think if we were to have a thread on the price of eggs in Tescos you would somehow bring into it: food banks, NHS, the homeless, racism.