Corbyns Torque

GGMK2 - If you write as if your opinions are facts - which makes me feel as if you are getting up close and shouting rudely at me

Last time I looked, this thread WAS for opinions regarding the Labour Party, Corbyn and Momentum. Virtually every thread on GN is an opinion column. We are not here to write essays. Discussing the Labour Party is not an assignment, nor do our opinions have to be 100% based on deep factual knowledge. Our opinions are our views, as we see the situation. If that is a problem for you, with respect, it's one for you to solve.

Once again the discussion has been steered off course.

I am not sure you'll garner much sympathy if you really feel all those expressing OPINIONS (it's allowed) are 'getting up close and shouting at you' - because they're not, obviously.

Good post Wally .....and plenty of facts!

It is a fact that Corbyn said Venezuela has shown us another way. They've shown us another way alright, they've shown us how to turn the largest oil deposits on earth and then impoverish their country. Inflation is running in the thousands % and people are literally starving. MCDonnell has said and I quote it's because they're not socialist enough. It is a fact Corbyn got a vote of no confidence in parliament, flooded the membership with extreme left wingers and got voted back in as leader. It is a fact that Corbyn failed to get into university because he only had 2 A Levels grade E then went to a polytechnic and failed to finish the course. It is my opinion that the extreme left wingers of the Labour Party would then see him as a puppet and form his opinions. It is a fact that MCDonnell has said the Labour Party would borrow to Nationalise putting us trillions into debt. He also has said that the promises they made to young people to get their votes before the election are now only aspirations. And so it goes on.

GracesGranMK2 Well at least we've got that cleared up.

There are other serious issues around this, not simply about
Changing rooms that need to be considered, and Corbyn
And ( if she does the same) May shouldn’t rush into this.

Does society allow a man to change openly in a women and girls changing room for example? To be naked and showering and changing after swimming whilst his penis is on view? I ask because this is the route we seem to be going down.

Being allowed to self identify their gender is one thing, allowing them to be promoted to jobs which have been the preserve of women and which are for the benefit of women
( the young man now called Lily) is quite another.

Wilma, I agree with most of the points you've made. There's an excellent article about it here, which explains why some people have an issue with it (and why Corbyn is wrong about invasive medical tests)
www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/07/jeremy-corbyn-right-trans-people-should-be-allowed-self-identify-their-gender

Thanks Primrose, I just wanted to check my understanding before replying. In the Labour manifesto there's a pledge to allow people to self-identify their gender. Corbyn said last year that discrimination of people self identifying has gone on too long and that it is wrong that the Gender Recognition Act does not allow trans people to self-identify their gender forcing them to undergo invasive medical tests. May has already said that she wants changes to be made to the current system, but she has a problem because the DUP is unlikely to back her. Other countries have laws preventing discrimination against self identification, including Ireland which introduced the new law two years ago. There's been no spate of cases where the legislation has been misused.

POGS my post about Nadhim Zahawi was not made in isolation. There were several posts about the politicians involved in the event made yesterday including some discussing the Labour peer Lord Mendelsohn, so obviously it's not just Tory politicians involved. Do I think any of them are guilty of wrong doing? No, I think they're guilty of bad judgement in attending the event. It was made clear that none of the politicians were involved in inappropriate behaviour. David Meller was right to step down and Corbyn was right to sack Lord Mendelsohn. I think May should have sacked Nadhim Zahawi, particularly given his area of responsibility and I'm surprised he didn't step down like David Meller.

I think there is such a lot out there in the msm and on he internet which is skewed in all directions. Finding a way through it all to true facts is quite difficult - imo.

I couldn't agree more Jalima. Personally, I don't find it helpful in finding a pragmatic, sensible, caring way forward - whether you call it left, right or in the centre - to read all about someone's views which are designed to meet their preconceived ideas of one person. So, while I may (or not) read them in passing they do go down as 'just another AB rant". Annie is totally entitled to her rants. The right are totally entitled to use the posts and I am totally entitled to feel they add nothing to the sum of the knowledge I am able to access in order to form my views.

Jalima Foundation Property & Capital is a web of companies.

There's Foundation Property & Capital (No.8) LLP which was partly owned by Leole Investments, an offshore Gibraltar company until July last year
Foundation Property & Capital (Lt) LLP
Foundation Property Company Ltd
A long list of 'FPC .....' companies

Left Futures itself has an interesting structure. It is owned by Ortonovo Holdings Ltd, Ortonovo holds shares in FPC No1 Convenience Ltd.

Jon Lansman is a director of Ortonovo and he keeps his finger in the family property pie via FPC No1 Convenience Ltd.

There's a story there for someone who fancies wading through the books. No brain fog on your part - it's a bit of a web!

a channel 4 reporter showing a campaign letter of Corbyn's ,with his signature and home address , asking people to join his campaign to have militants expelled from the party brought back into the party was skewed

They are often skewed to do just that.

I think there is such a lot out there in the msm and on he internet which is skewed in all directions. Finding a way through it all to true facts is quite difficult - imo.

Many people (and posters on here I think) are not of the right in fact but want a pragmatic, sensible, caring centre way forward which is not being offered at the moment.

They are Corbyn bashing Annie. They are often skewed to do just that. It obviously matters intensely to you but you are only one (although you sadly do not see how used you often are by the right on here) and when, yet again, we hear "he didn't do this" or "he didn't do that" it becomes very easy to ignore so I would just carry on if it keeps you happy.

Personally I just want to know what is going to be on offer from the parties. Knowing the past helps but I find obsessing about it doesn't tell me about the future.

" I'd argue that what the LP was 30, 50 or 70 years ago is totally irrelevant. It's what it is today that's important."

You make a valid point and I am sure you agree that applies to other parties too.

I think it is fair to say that there was most definitely a Stereotype as to how people voted but that has changed over the decades . No party is the soul domain of the rich , elite just as no party can rely on the working class for their vote.

There will always be the 'stick a rosette of red/blue/yellow etc on a monkey and it would win" scenario but political parties cannot rely on that as much as they did.

I do however find the political rhetoric over the past couple of years has gone back to the divisive, class warfare I hoped had been put out to grass but I fear it's resurgence is once again the goal for many who enjoyed it then and happily see it repeated now.

I have posted facts about Corbyn but these are dismissed as Corbyn bashing .

A link to box box is accepted as a link to facts by some , no matter vox pox claimed he was involved very much in the Good Friday agreement, which he most definitely was not

I presume if anyone answers my question about what is an acceptable level of wealth before it is re-distributed to the state that would be opinion rather than fact.

"If you don't think your opinions are facts and I personally find it more comfortable to be told that this occasionally."

How can an opinion be a fact?

We all post opinions, we all post facts.

What happens is facts are challenged and somehow perversely turned into opinions by those who do not believe in facts that do not suit there own agenda.

I would think most posters can differentiate between opinions / facts / perspective / angle etc. etc.

Sorry, not Left Futures of course, the company Foundation Property & Capital which operated in 2015 from the same building as Left Futures and was run by the Lansman family.

Same address, rather confusing.

lunch time brain fog, need some food.

www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20151220/281719793540200

So is 'Left Futures' still operating? Would that be considered an ethical organisation and the people profiting from it be within the limits of what is acceptably rich?

Where is the cut-off point I wonder?

WilmaKF

As you have raised a topic being discussed on another thread and this is about Corbyn /Labour I feel free to ask you this.

Do you believe that the Presidents Club Charity Function over it's lifetime has only been attended by Tory MP's , those connected to the Tory Party?

Do you believe Nadhim Zahawi is guilty of innopropriate behaviour.?

If the answer is 'yes' to both questions then I think you are at best naive on the first question and making a personal allegation to the other which would be rather silly unless evidence surfaces.

If your answer is ' no' to both questions what point are you trying to make by introducing a thread to a thread ?

It's because you said "the party of labour and the working person" in the context of the roots of the party, I obviously made some wrong assumptions.
What do you mean by 'the party of labour and the working person'?
I've not considered higher or junior managerial/professionals as providing labour to work. In the context of a post about the roots of the labour party, ABC1s didn't fit the bill.

I'd argue that what the LP was 30, 50 or 70 years ago is totally irrelevant. It's what it is today that's important.

what makes them richer than anyone needs to be
That's a very interesting point.

How rich does anyone need to be?
What is acceptable to others - should the wealthy celebs who espouse their left-wing credentials give away most of their wealth until they reach a level which is acceptable to the majority?

Very interesting thought, although one person's rich could be another person's just about managing.

Thank you for that Gracesgran, I will go and ponder.

It was a wink actually ......

Champagne Socialists Primrose a lot of them.

You really do have to have a go at everyone don't you Lemons. Putting a little grin does not make a comment funny unless it is actually funny.

What do you actually have to tell us about the fact that many of those who are joining the LP are interested in other people, society and how to improve life and not just themselves, what makes them richer than anyone needs to be and putting down any group they can blamed for the ills of the world as we so often hear from those on the right.