Corbyns Torque

There's plenty of references on this thread to those no longer in the forces on this thread since you posted about PTS. And lack of prospects does not automatically go hand in hand with lack of intelligence. Don't twist my words into what you want.

Not sure if you're asking for a link about the charities, but here it is

Veterans Transition Review

Wilma, no one has said they were treated well if injured , this is about Comrade Corbyn calling our armed forces the unemployed being sent to fight.

You too think the majority are losers going into the forces because they haven't the intelligence to do anything else , Trisher seems to think it's the forces or unemployment, drugs, crime . As for your rose coloured spectacles comment , and charities, perhaps a seperate link?

I think some people are wearing rose tinted spectacles about our armed forces. It's possible to be proud of the job they do and respect the fact that they are willing to do it, but please at least admit that we don't treat them well if they get injured and have to be medically discharged or when they come to the end of the period they signed on for.

Yes, I think think it's still true you can 'learn a trade and see the world' and all that jazz, but if we treated our ex-servicemen so well then a spate of charities like Help for Heroes would not have sprung up. In fact, there are so many forces charities that the The Veterans Transition Review report in 2014 called for the 350 charities to be consolidated. Most of these charities provide for more than just service leavers, including those still serving, their families and other veterans. Much of our armed services accommodation is substandard and remember our armed forces have far fewer rights than civilians.

That doesn't sound to me like we treat our armed forces that well and I believe majority of the people who go into the armed forces still do so because they lack prospects. Not all, but most.

Oh I do wish you would read posts Annie- no-one said 'all'-

although I did say all kids deserve to get a good education, to be taught life skills and jobs, and taken out of poverty and often dire situations - WITHOUT being expected to pay with their flesh, soul and lives in yet more dire siutations - and ending up in poverty and with nothing again at the end of it.

I've witnessed with my own eyes the recruitment campaigns in schools - with ski trips, trips abroad, and lots of exciting activities those kids would never have a chance to experience- almost impossible to refuse- without truly realising the price to pay.

I thought we were talking recently about those in Calais - who do speak English most of them.

Can only because they do not speak English , are lying and can speak English but claim they can't

They want to come to the uk because they all speak english
So why do we pay out 10s of millions a year in translation costs?

So better to leave youngsters at risk of becoming a drug addict, being stabbed or stabbing, stealing etc than becoming a member of the armed forces ? I do think sixteen is too young to join up for x number of years , better they do two years as if in an apprenticeship.

And I repeat not all members of the armed forces are vunerable or lacking an education

They want to come to the UK because they all speak English, not French. Because they have friends here already, family even.And because it still has the reputation (sadly disappearing fast) for being hugely tolerant of differences (unlike France I'am afraid), colour, culture and religion.

And I agree with Trisher- there have been many publications and studies recently which have come to the same conclusion about recruitment in run down working class communities with little hope.

A country should offer a decent education and skills for all- without asking for a pound of flesh and often a lot more, in exchange. At least not before the age of 18.

And if this country is as poverty stricken and drugged up as you think why on earth do you and your hero want refugees to come to such a god forsaken country Trisher ?

i think your thoughts in our armed forces is rubbish Trisher, just a very pathetic excuse to defend your beloved militant band . I certaintly do not need you to take me to the home of a family where is very little hope, where families lose their children to drugs, crimes, violence,murder , wherever you live I think you need to be told there are families like this in all parts of the country, they are not the many your hero yaps on about, the many are the people who get up every morning to go to work, who pay tax, the ordinary working man/woman, perhaps you need to think of these as well as the vunerable . It is the likes of your comrade Corbyn who is dividing this country supported by you and those who think as you do. Your attack on the British armed forces was shameful now you use the vunerable in a pathetic attempt to excuse it.

And please must we have - let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of London, - so sixties .

This is taking us away from Corbyn ( that could be considered a good thing I suppose.)

Neither do I, why does anyone think the immigrants in Calais want to come to the UK? They don’t want to stay in France.The UK offers lots that’s why, including free education and NHS care and has many opportunties to work and get on in life.
Sorry trisher but your view of the UK is more like one of Afghanistan!

Crikey trisher - people do have a choice. No one is forced to join the armed services. I don't recognise the UK as a nation where there is little hope or no opportunity.
Perhaps it's different in London - I'm surrounded by people who have come to the UK precisely because they see so much opportunity here!

That's OK then. If we educate them to degree level before we let them be killed or maimed everything will be fine. So why is Annie going on about PTS etc?
Cannon Fodder is still used but has wider meaning now
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/cannon-fodder
As for the problems of young people I could take you to many places where there is very little hope, where families lose their children to drugs, crime or violence. They aren't bad families they are simply overwhelmed by circumstances and the place they live. The problems in 2018 are very different to 1945, but they still need be addressed and offering the opportunity to be killed because there isn't much else available doesn't seem a good way of dealing with them

I so agree Jalima , yet the far left here seem to think the needs of this country in 2018 are the very same as the needs of this country in 1945

Well said lemon .

To compare young people now to the poor men and boys of the first world war is nasty to both generations

That's why the LP needs a new leader - forward looking and forward thinking, not harping back to a golden past which actually never happened.

Things have changed ( a lot!) from 60 or so years ago but Corbyn and a lot like him are stuck in the past.

Many American ‘vets’ are very proud of their military service.

Silly to call any soldiers in the UK ‘cannon fodder’ they have joined of their own free will, are well paid and learn many skills.In any case, the army or any of the services cannot be ‘all Chiefs and no Indians’.

I would imagine many of the vets of other wars feel the same.
Imagining is not the same as knowing.

The Forces will help fund university with a bursary for some recruits therefore they will be educated to degree level without getting into so much debt, followed by Sandhurst followed by at least 3 years commitment. The courses are varied and even include music.

We did not send troops to Vietnam and America was/is another country. However, Australia did send troops to Vietnam as did other countries as they were part of SEATO (South East Asia Treaty Organisation).

'Cannon fodder' was a term used in WW1 and it will be 100 years since the end of that this year.

This is not America , British care about their country but are not as the Americans who think America is the chosen country of God . They enlist fully prepared to die for their flag, our armed forces enlist for a career , know in conflict they could die but do not line up to enlist for conflicts .

Cannon fodder was a term used in long ago wars and you insult them too .

There was a time one could buy one's way into Sandhurst, yes it still happens with the arictocracy but many at Sandhurst are there after university, and you may not be aware the ordinary working class can now go to university

I think you and your Corbyn insult our armed forces

Not that there are no middle-class recruits, simply that the army doesn't target them as it does the working-class unemployed. But then the working -class have always been expendable-they used to be known as 'cannon fodder'. Still if we give them a medal and call them heroes it should make us all feel better. You can read about the Vietnam draft process on-line. One result
The draft lottery had social and economic consequences because it generated resistance to military service and the resisters, draft evaders or "draft dodgers", were generally young, well-educated, healthy men.