The President's Club Annual Gala - "Men Behaving Badly"

I see Jimmy Tarbuck has come out and said that he was there but only to give the Loyal Toast and then he left. He goes on to site Hen Partiers as being examples of bad behaviour and objectification of men.

Of course it wasn’t set up Sinnysuzie it had been going on 30 years how can it be set up The Ft sent a reporter undercover after tip offs that it was a ‘way beyond normal’ event and after they d heard complaints
I’ve read although the women were given 5 page disclaimers they were given a couple of minutes to sign so no way they would have read it
I would imagine although the ladies who had done it before may have known it could have been that new comers didn’t realise how bad They would have expected to be looked at admired maybe even had suggestive comments about them but I doubt any expected hands up their clothes or even in one case a todger being got out
About the women at men stripper nights that is totally different as the stripper is offering himself to be touched, stroked, admired etc his whole fee is paid to titilate and offer his body to the screaming women . a waitress or hostess is not being paid for that
Even lap dancing and strip clubs have a no touching rule
These

Having waited to post and listen to different sides of the story, I think the ' kangaroo court' usually goes into overdrive on subjects such as this, I think there are many issues that are raised.

The ' women' must have had a pretty good idea that there employment for that function was to be for the purpose of ' looking pretty' and that includes the journalist who took the job but her reason for being there was for a wholely different purpose.

If walks like a duck, it's a duck.

Now that also does not mean it would/could necessarily turn into some sort of perverted evening and if the 'allegations' are true then there were indeed some grown men who overstepped the mark . However to simply pick out a few names of attendees and 'presume' he /they are guilty of lewd behaviour is equally guilty of overstepping the mark and to be honest a far worse situation because it no longer remains an allegation but becomes the absolute truth to some who for whatever reason are content to tar and feather ALL men as some sort of different species that cannot control themselves.

I find the posts that comment " Rich white males thinking they can do what they want. ", comparing this to the likes of the Bradford Grooming Gangs are ridiculous and lacking in context and prejudiced by using race as a card to play.

Then there is the handing back by Great Osmond Street of 'tainted' money associated with sexualisation of women.

Great Ormond Street has set a precedent has it not. What if JM Barrie were to be found to be a paedophile ? What if GOSH has taken funding from a Dictator , Criminal, etc.? If there was a Freedom of Information request asking for the names of ALL donators and there were names and associations that perhaps were by far worse than the Presidents Club donation would GOSH stand by it's principle and hand the money back? If not, why not.

I see so many sides to this episode but I cannot see why there is a cry for banning all male all female functions , that has totally lost the plot.

I admit my initial reaction to charities such as GOSH handing the money back was a bit of a knee jerk reaction having thought about it more and listened to others, I think on balance they should have kept the money, what they do is so important.

I also don't think there should be a ban on all male or all female societies, but I have to admit I was glad to read the President's Club is no more it was just too archaic and sexist for words promoting in their words the "most non PC event of the year, and "spice up your wife with some plastic surgery bidding lot". What I particularly dislike is the premise that raising money for charity negates any hanky panky that may occur during the evening. One poster cited an incident at a rotary club years ago when a load of men there behaved in an inappropriate way when she was waiting on tables. Why should staff doing these jobs have to put up with a load of men having a laugh at their expense. That's not to say that I think all men do, my husband assures me that the very few all male golf club dinners he has attended the staff are male and female and treated with respect. We've discussed this latest debacle he loathes the type of men who behave in such a way having four granddaughers, his older three being the age of the women doing the waiting. He is also of the opinion that men who behave in such a way should have the imagination to consider how they would feel if one the young women being groped were their daughter or granddaughter.

There are quite a lot of posts pointing out that women also behave badly at hen dos where men may be taking their clothes off. True these women also make me cringe but as others have said the men have offered themselves up for that purpose their choice and I suppose one could say the same about lap dancers/strippers, their choice, unless of course it isn't. Have not read about trafficked men working in the equivalent of a lap dancing club, but who knows in this day and age

I think someone said that the FT expose was a put up job, quite possibly, I think the Harvey Weinstein affair opened a Pandora's Box out of which, I agree, there has been a demonisation of men per se. Nevertheless, I don't think it's a bad thing if some misogynist old dinasaurs get caught up in the crossfire but I would concede we must not assume all the men who attended that night behaved badly.

Just reading through this thread again & having commenting earlier on, I am equally appalled that these woman do not know what they signed,this surely could lead to their names etc being used without them being able to do anything about it. It was allegedly quite a lengthy disclaimer.

POGS many have alleged that Barrie was a paedophile and his relationship with the Llewelyn Davies boys who he adopted after their parents' deaths (and forged a document to do so) has always been questioned. Peter Pan is not the simple story most imagine, it has a dark side. It's a tragic story with very sinister implications- worth reading about.

Fact trisher ? Was Barrie a paedophile? Do people imagine Peter Pan is a simple story ? Is your - it's a tragic story wuth sinister implications a fact or someone looking for something that isn't there but fits wuth the paedophile allegations.

or does it belong to - Sleeping Beauty was really on drugs and Snow White was a nymphomaniac

Women don't have to be dressed like that to attract unwanted attention.

www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/presidents-club-charity-gala-groping-sexual-harass/

I presume they thought they were safe en-masse.

Trisher did not say it was fact, Annie. She said many have alleged; and they have.

I don't know if he was Anniebach but a lot of what happened would be more carefully investigated today. For example in 1902 in Little White Bird (a first person story) he wrote David and I had a tremendous adventure. It was this – he passed the night with me... I took [his boots] off with all the coolness of an old hand, and then I placed him on my knee, and removed his blouse. This was a delightful experience, but I think I remained wonderfully calm until I came somewhat too suddenly to his little braces, which agitated me profoundly... I cannot proceed in public with the disrobing of David.

But trisher that is not proof of him being a paedophile, it can be read differently if not looking for darkness in it

Oh Annie do stop trying to pick holes in everything I say. Read a few books about Barrie and the Llewelyn Davies family then make your own mind up. One of the titles Barrie used for Peter Pan at first was The Boy Who Hated Mothers.

Actually Terribull, the boys I was talking about being touched by drunken old ladies are waiters and table clearers. They are also under 18 working in venues where they don't serve the drinks but collect the glasses and they are subjected to the same sort of thing that people are pointing out that women have to suffer. I don't think anyone should suffer these indignities, male or female, but there were clues that these girls were going 'on show'. That doesn't mean they should have been groped but it's naive to believe you won't be at risk. Its a sad world sometimes.

Trisher, you have been a good teacher. And do not tell me what to read, please stop trying to control threads

Thank you Annie. And I really do advise you to read the story of Barrie and the tragic Llewelyn Davies family. It's always a good idea to know at least a little about something you are discussing.

Isn't a good teacher someone who guides you in your reading?

www.independent.co.uk/voices/presidents-club-feminism-charity-fundraising-men-only-sex-sells-appeal-harassment-equality-a8177926.html

Mark Steel. You can watch or read.

My take on this is very simple. If any man I knew had ever attended such an event, he would be crossed off my "Christmas card list", never eat a meal in my house again and if he had the cheek to talk to me about it, I would tell him in detail what a second-rate human being and utter failure as a real man I thought he was.

I thought 'dirty old men' when it first come out lol...once they had a few tots of scotch they think they re gods gift. Also I expect because they are wealthy and donating tons of cash they thought they had the right to behave like it.....wonder what they're wives said to them when all this came out ???....I see Jimmy Tarbuck was there, he said he didn't see anything like that going on......."I bet ?

I believe there were over 300 men at the event, only a small minority apparently acted in this way - I think it unreasonable that now every man who attended is being tarred with the same brush.

Only just come to this thread and don’t have the stamina to read all the posts. So this comment may have been made before. I noticed from the photos many of the men were smoking, I didn’t think smoking was allowed in that sort of setting.

Many years ago I remember a story where a man had exposed himself to some middle aged woman, who didn’t flinch but said something like ‘put it away man it’s hardly worth looking at’. He ran away. What a gal.

Totties encouraging old men to donate more cash.

...it’s about time we had a different tactic for high-end fundraising.

I heard of someone with a similar experience NanKate when asked what she thought of the offending body part she replied " well it looks like a penis only smaller "
I don't think GOSH should have returned the money either, but reconsidered any future offers of fundraising by this group. I think I read they have recouped the money from crowd funding.

Maybe grampie might like to rephrase “high end fundraising” [blushh]