The President's Club Annual Gala - "Men Behaving Badly"

I would hope that Probus is the epitome of probity.

Trisher , I think you are missing the point entirely. There are plenty of establishments for men to visit if they so wish, where both parties know what the deal is.
This was a charity event, which only men attended & woman were employed ad hoc to be eye candy or more. No one is critising the girls . Of course woman should wear what they like when they like, but to please themselves not to please some slime ball, so if all the girls who worked there that night felt comfortable about it that’s fine. It’s the B ——y men that are ogling touching etc etc that are to be criticised

Sorry Bridgeit don't understand what you are on about, my remark about the girls was adressing why didn't the girls who had worked the event before warn the newcomers.
And the bit about the standard of dress was pure sarcasm (although there was a time when women were warned not show their ankles because it drove men mad)
As for "no one is criticising the girls", there are lots of posts on this thread doing just that

Ohhp sorry I’ve probably confused you Trisher with Annibach ?glass of wine & multitasking !!

They should, Jalima. Anyone know what the women were paid?

Oh, sorry. Jalima was on a previous page. She suggested that alarm bells should have rung, and I was agreeing

I presume the "girls" referred to were actually adult women who had a choice about doing this job.

I was listening to something about the non-disclosure agreements: actual crimes being committed would nullify the NDAs it was said so if a woman felt she had been abused she could report it to police in the normal way.

I went to a fund raising local rugby club male strip evening. Never having been before. Had no idea what would happen. I suppose I assumed they'd be on a stage and just flash something momentarily. How naive I was. They walked around the tables letting the women do what ever to them. I saw one stick his todger in an ear. The women all were screaming and egging them on. It was awful and I have never been to one again. Alcohol was flowing so that probably didn't help.
No doubt the Dorchester do was a bit more refined? Who knows.

That sounds horrendous, amt101.

Every day in the media we hear about women and girls being molested by men. It’s about time women and girls learned to expose this kind of abuse and fight back, maybe by slapping or screaming at the perpetrator to draw attention to their vile behaviour. I cannot understand how young women in this day and age are so naive that when told to wear provocative clothing, they have little idea of what will be expected of them. There needs to be a lot more awareness of potentially unsavoury situations which should be avoided. Have we really become so feeble that we have to put up with such pathetic behaviour and can deal with it only by running to the press?

Years ago I worked in a reputable Restaurant as a full-time waitress, one evening we had Round Table in for Dinner, about 100 businessmen, they behaved like naughty schoolboys. This was 50+ years ago, one "gentleman" asked me what would happen if he undid my apron strings, I asked him if he would like to eat the trifle in my hand or wear it, he ate it. I would add I was only 17/18 at the time.

Nothing changes

theconversation.com/presidents-club-dinner-why-good-deeds-never-justify-bad-actions-90678

These women were not children they are adults and knew full well what would go on, had it been an all female event with male waiters scantly dressed we would not have heard a peep of protest. A girl who applied along with her friend was turned down by the agency because they had the number they wanted. The girl who was turned down told the newspaper. My niece life models for an all male art group from 7.30 to 9.30 pm there are 20 men in the group who all pay £10 each to the model she models twice per week so she takes Home £400 per week for 4 hours. It was advertised in an art magazine and she applied.

I have read many comments and responses to this story and I do understand that the women who signed disclaimers and wore sext shoes must have known what tone the event would have but decided to do it anyway because of the high fee and exorbitant tips.

However, my take on it is this. If the men would not want their own daughters groped and ogled by strangers then they should not do it to the daughters of others.

It is a grubby, sleazy event and the men who paid to attend it so they could exploit girl children should be ashamed of themselves. The girls who think it is OK to make money in their way should have the situation outlined to them in ways that make them see for themselves how dangerous and how lacking in common morality their choices and behaviour are.

Whether or not these women accepted that being groped was part of the job is not the point. There will always be those, both male and female, who will sell their favours for profit, naievity or out of dire need.

The question is whether you would accept your son, husband, father etc behaving in that manner. I can honestly say that my son would never treat a woman in this way, no matter how she dressed or how others were behaving and indeed he would have either left, or made a fuss. Likewise my DH.

Stop blaming the women who were at the receiving end and look at the type of Neanderthal who thinks that this is acceptable behaviour. Trump comes to mind.

I think everyone agrees that men shouldn't behave in such ways and that if any of our husbands, partners, brothers or sons behaved in such ways we'd be disgusted with them. There will always be a difference between shouldn't happen and what does happen though. That is not to excuse bad behaviour, just to accept reality and to warn naive people of what sordid reality encompasses so that they can, if they wish, be on their guard.

I think the publicity surrounding this particular event will have the effect of making such events even more socially unacceptable than they already are.

Actually, I have felt uncomfortable about quite a lot of charity fundraising for at least twenty years. A lot of it seems to me to be rather over the top and, really, rather gross even when there is no actual gross behaviour. Mind you, I think charity pestering by phone and chugging on the streets is on the grossness scale if at its milder end.

I think the whole thing was a set up job. The journalists, or whoever was backing them, wanted to make an example of this event knowing from previous years what it was like. Whether it was done to get the venue closed down, to publicise the cause, or just to sell newspapers who knows.

The treatment these girls witnessed and experienced is totally unacceptable, however, I think it was probably only a minority of the men who were behaving so badly. I am concerned that it would appear none of the other men attending intervened to protect the young women.

If they knew from previous years what it was like - how can it be a “set up job”?

I doubt if 'they' would manage to get the Dorchester Hotel closed down!

I think GOSH returning £530K is virtual signalling of the worst kind.

Have they always been this picky? Of course not. It's just that this time some negative publicity has caused a knee-jerk reaction.

If they can afford to part with the money they should send it to Yemen where malnourished children suffering from cholera and diphtheria are clinging to life without the benefit of a high tech hospital to support them.

I can't imaging Medecins sans Frontieres sending it back!!

These young woman must have had some idea of what they were letting themselves in for. The dress code and disclaimer should have made it pretty obvious! The agency also must have made it clear to them, if not, then the agency is at fault. Sadly men will always be men, and the only way to stop this sort of behaviour is for girls to refuse to work at these sort of gigs.

For those asking whether we've read the article and wondering why anybody would find the idea of telling people they needed to wear black underwear as 'normal', I would say, 'Yes, I have read the article and think there are big red flags with this bit:
"The uniform requirements also became more detailed: all hostesses should bring “BLACK sexy shoes”, black underwear, and do their hair and make-up as they would to go to a “smart sexy place”."'

Personally, I would have though it would have told me all I needed to know about the type of event it was. As they were employed to serve alcoholic drinks, they'd have also known that there were likely to be drunks there. On that basis, you either have to be prepared to tell unruly un-gentlemen where to go if they are inappropriate, put up with such behaviour or avoid the job at all costs. In an ideal world, you should be able to parade your body around in front of drunken men (or women) without them drooling into their soup or taking every opportunity to touch you but we don't live in an ideal world. Surely common sense has to prevail if you don't want to be put into an uncomfortable/dangerous situation. If you don't care enough about yourself to take sensible precautions, rather sadly, nobody else is likely to. We will never completely eradicate the sort of behaviour shown at this event so we have to take some sort of responsibility. We also have to ensure that men and women can respectfully "make moves" on each other otherwise procreation will be a thing of the past. Unfortunately, there will always be misinterpretation of another's willingness to take a relationship further so there will always be "incidents" of what people will interpret as "abuse." We just have to do our best to minimise those.

How come groping is not allowed in lap dancing clubs where women who work there certainly know they will be ogled? Yet people her are apologists for men groping women at this event because the “ girls must have known” what it would be like.

Adults do what adults do like it or not. If any women feel they were sexually assaulted that night they are free to go to the police NOW rather than wait 30 years or so as seems to be the timescale that some women suddenly remembered someone assaulted them. I personally would not go to a function like that but those women who went along under their own free will they were not forced. What I find sickening is the gutter press acting like lily white prudes as if butter would not melt in their mouth.